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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR poem to IW - Brilliant

306 replies

TwistedWonder · 15/02/2025 18:21

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1890450465063600510

I’ll get screenshots for anyone not on X but I have to love JKR for this ❤️

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
AlisonWhatIsTheMatter · 16/02/2025 00:33

Roses are red
Willyboy’s lips are too
he is still a dick
without a real foo foo

TwistedWonder · 16/02/2025 00:41

Rose are red
Sunflowers are yella
Dear doctor Upspn
You’re still a fella

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 16/02/2025 00:50

Roses are biological
Dr Upton is biological
Erm..!

Actually 'If' fits quite well re. the nonsense at Fife

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—Upton's still a Man!

With very little tweaking.

Cerah · 16/02/2025 01:26

Roses are red
Violets are blue
You may hate JK Rowling
Because her words are true

NImumconfused · 16/02/2025 01:50

murasaki · 16/02/2025 00:14

My dad used to read it to me when I was little. Strange man.

We were made to learn that one off by heart in primary school!

HesSoBadHesGood · 16/02/2025 05:22

Doc Upton told such dreadful lies
It made one gasp and stretch ones eyes
The Judge who from his earliest youth
Had kept a strict regard for truth
Attempted to believe Doc Upton
The effort nearly caused a ruption
And would have done had not he
Discovered this infirmity

I need to go back to bed!

Slimbear · 16/02/2025 05:46

Is it actually JKR

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:26

I'm stunned by JK's poem. I thought she was concerned about the safety risk of self-ID and the unfairness of bio men competing in women's sports, both concerns that I share. But I didn't realise that she completely invalidates trans people's experience of feeling that they are inhabiting the wrong shell and that inside, they are the opposite sex. I thought she was better than that.

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:35

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:26

I'm stunned by JK's poem. I thought she was concerned about the safety risk of self-ID and the unfairness of bio men competing in women's sports, both concerns that I share. But I didn't realise that she completely invalidates trans people's experience of feeling that they are inhabiting the wrong shell and that inside, they are the opposite sex. I thought she was better than that.

How is it possible that someone is a different sex ‘inside’? Or that they are in the wrong shell / body?

They may be disassociated with their bodies but that doesn’t mean they are in the wrong bodies in material reality. It means they have a belief that they are in the wrong body. Why should that belief be treated as materially real?

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:36

I got that impression that JK is generally sympathetic to trans people because she wrote, on the subject of trans people (while defending Maya F.)

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Live your best life in peace and security.
[But don't force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real - paraphrasing.]

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:40

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:26

I'm stunned by JK's poem. I thought she was concerned about the safety risk of self-ID and the unfairness of bio men competing in women's sports, both concerns that I share. But I didn't realise that she completely invalidates trans people's experience of feeling that they are inhabiting the wrong shell and that inside, they are the opposite sex. I thought she was better than that.

Willoughby is an abuser and has a long history of abusing Joanne Rowling and other women on public record. Are you say that she should just take the abuse and not respond?

Willoughby posted something that invited others to abuse Sandie Peggy, in a way that Willoughby has done numerous times to others (and I believe Joanne herself) and you choose to question Joanne Rowling’s poem?

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:41

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:36

I got that impression that JK is generally sympathetic to trans people because she wrote, on the subject of trans people (while defending Maya F.)

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Live your best life in peace and security.
[But don't force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real - paraphrasing.]

Edited

You didn’t answer the question I asked though.

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:54

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:35

How is it possible that someone is a different sex ‘inside’? Or that they are in the wrong shell / body?

They may be disassociated with their bodies but that doesn’t mean they are in the wrong bodies in material reality. It means they have a belief that they are in the wrong body. Why should that belief be treated as materially real?

In my opinion, there are circumstances where it definitely shouldn't be considered materially real, like entering changing rooms via self-ID and like bio men competing in women's sports.

No foetus starts off male. Foetuses that are genetically destined to be male are masculinized by producing a large amount of testosterone at six weeks. It's hardly a stretch to imagine that sometimes the process goes haywire, resulting in a mismatch between the body and brain. The process can result in a body that develops as male but a brain that is never exposed to the testosterone, because the brain is the last organ in the process to be affected. (It's why there are more trans women than trans men.) I learnt all this from the book "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps."

So I believe that some people absolutely are born experiencing life as the sex which is opposite to the body they inhabit and that they 100 percent truly and genuinely feel that they are the opposite sex in everything except body, and science says that that might well be correct.

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:59

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:40

Willoughby is an abuser and has a long history of abusing Joanne Rowling and other women on public record. Are you say that she should just take the abuse and not respond?

Willoughby posted something that invited others to abuse Sandie Peggy, in a way that Willoughby has done numerous times to others (and I believe Joanne herself) and you choose to question Joanne Rowling’s poem?

I was just surprised to see JK insisting that a trans woman is a man in the light of previous respect she's shown trans people, in the lines I quote above. I don't know anything about India W.

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:59

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 07:41

You didn’t answer the question I asked though.

See above. We cross-posted and then I was considering and writing my answer.

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 08:08

@Helleofabore

"A child who, at birth, appears to be a boy, may actually have the genes of a girl."

Article expanding on what I say above.
https://storymd.com/journal/mp9kx4e06w-sexual-health-the-marvel-of-sexual-development/page/e8zadbhoqz8k-everyone-starts-out-female 

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 08:21

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:54

In my opinion, there are circumstances where it definitely shouldn't be considered materially real, like entering changing rooms via self-ID and like bio men competing in women's sports.

No foetus starts off male. Foetuses that are genetically destined to be male are masculinized by producing a large amount of testosterone at six weeks. It's hardly a stretch to imagine that sometimes the process goes haywire, resulting in a mismatch between the body and brain. The process can result in a body that develops as male but a brain that is never exposed to the testosterone, because the brain is the last organ in the process to be affected. (It's why there are more trans women than trans men.) I learnt all this from the book "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps."

So I believe that some people absolutely are born experiencing life as the sex which is opposite to the body they inhabit and that they 100 percent truly and genuinely feel that they are the opposite sex in everything except body, and science says that that might well be correct.

No foetus starts off male.

This is not true though. Embryos are already genetically coded at conception.

This process of development is yet another that has been leveraged by people attempting to find some kind of science to support 'wrong body' statements. The embryos have all the coding for their development already because each sperm is differentiated. And this latest claim about 'all embryos being female' is both ignoring that for a period all embryos are 'undifferentiated' meaning they all look alike as they are developing and then the statement leverages people's complex medical conditions to destabilise the sex categories of human.

No embryo that is coded to be a male will produce working ovaries. After a period of time of merely being undifferentiated, the embryo will continue its development cycle. A male embryo was not 'female' for that period of time.

Some people have differences of sex development and those DSDs can almost reliably be traced to only impacting one sex category of human. Meaning, that those people are still male or female people at the genetic level.

I grew up listening to Alan Pease. I would not consider Alan Pease to be a developmental or evolutionary biology expert in any way. He is a professor (which could be an honorary position given in 2013) of International Business.

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 08:25

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 08:08

@Helleofabore

"A child who, at birth, appears to be a boy, may actually have the genes of a girl."

Article expanding on what I say above.
https://storymd.com/journal/mp9kx4e06w-sexual-health-the-marvel-of-sexual-development/page/e8zadbhoqz8k-everyone-starts-out-female 

Edited

'Tsiaras is an internationally renowned photojournalist and technology innovator who is the CEO and founder of Anatomical Travelogue and TheVisualMD.com. Years after his initial viewing of X-rays, Tsiaras taught himself myriad medical disciplines and programming languages that eventually led him to discover a way to use traditional images of the human body to build images and videos that demonstrate a wide array of health issues and disease states letting users learn, understand and interact with health content on the Internet. With a firm belief that access to health information will lead to a healthier population, Tsiaras’ latest venture has resulted in his imagery becoming the new standard used to explain wellness and disease.'

Can I suggest if you are on Twitter that you look up Dr Emma Hilton who will often explain these misinformed statements. She teaches medics about developmental pathways up in Manchester. But there are others who also explain how the statement is wrong.

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 08:29

This is from Carole Hooven (hoovlet on Twitter).

It touches on the hormone AMH which is the hormone that stops the production of the uterus and fallopian tubes. It is produced in the testes of male people. And as such there are no ovaries, because the body developed testes instead.
There is are male conditions where this hormone is not produced. In Persistent Müllerian Duct Syndrome, male people with this still develop as ‘typical male’ developmentally.

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1819449064590582073?s=46&t=HTxp6zCd4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

The relevant parts of the tweet is below:

Males with 5-ARD do not have a uterus or other female internal structures, but they do have what looks like a vagina, so are often sexed as females. However they are males with normal testes, which produce typical male hormones. Those hormones, among other things, prevent the development of female internal reproductive structures (like the uterus and cervix).

In embryonic development, we all start out with two sets of primordial duct systems, one set that will develop into the male internal reproductive stuff (the Wolffian ducts, which become the epididymis, vas deferens and seminal vesicles), and another that develops into the female internal stuff (the Müllerian ducts, which become the upper part of the vagina, cervix, uterus and fallopian tubes, pic at the end).

In males, fetal testes don't only produce testosterone! They also make Anti-Mullerian Hormone (AMH), which is crucial for getting rid of the Mullerian ducts, and thus, ensuring that the eventual uterus, etc. don't develop. If there's no testes and no AMH, that female internal stuff will develop.

Males need high levels of T for male-typical development of all the male reproductive structures. Without T production and action, the external (penis and scrotum) and internal (described above) genitalia won't develop. But as I wrote in my monster tweet yesterday, T alone isn't enough for development of the penis and scrotum (and prostate): for that, T must be converted into DHT (a more potent androgen, production pathway below), and people with 5-ARD don't make the necessary enzyme to carry out that conversion. So they end up with what appears to be a vagina.

FYI, some males inherit a genetic mutation that means they can't produce AMH. They are typical males, but have a nonfunctional uterus and fallopian tubes inside their abdomen. The condition often not discovered until adulthood (it's called Persistent Müllerian Duct Syndrome). AMH is an important hormone for males, but hardly anyone even knows it exists.
Also, the testes generally don't descend into the scrotum before birth (as usual) without DHT, but they often do at puberty when testosterone levels reach high concentrations. So males with 5-ARD may be "sexed" as female, due to the female-appearing external genitalia.

But brain and the rest of the body are typically male. Most people with the condition will "transition" to living as a male once they realize they are male, and this often happens at puberty, when the testes descend and the body develops in a typically masculine way.

The link to her 'monster tweet'

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1819041282594873759

I believe if you plug these links into 'nitter' you will be able to access them without a twitter account.

And for reference:

Carole Hooven, PhD is Lecturer and Co-director of Undergraduate Studies in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University. She earned her PhD at Harvard, studying sex differences and testosterone,

SolitaryWeasel · 16/02/2025 08:34

@ThisFluentBiscuit India willoughby is a misogynistic bully. She tweeted a nasty message with images implying Sandy Peggie looked more like a bigoted bully than Upton. The images show Sandy as exactly who she is, a totally normal, middle aged woman still grieving the very recent loss of her father and one who has been under unimaginable stress because of her persecution by Fife NHS and the vainglorious Upton. Meanwhile to my eyes Upton looks exactly who he is a smug, smirking, self-satisfied idiot. Nothing vulnerable there. Willoughby was saying that because Sandy doesn’t fulfil the classic transidentifying male’s idea of femininity i.e. pink and fluffy, short skirt, squealing and having a pillow fight in the street, she must be a wrong un and a bigot and a bully. JKR picked him up on this and why not? Why should we always be nice and kind and let this endless wave of shite wash over us?

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 08:34

And @ThisFluentBiscuit The Paradox Institute just released a video explaining this just last week, after months of people started afresh with that claim about 'everyone starting out as female'.

https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/watch

TwistedWonder · 16/02/2025 08:34

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:59

I was just surprised to see JK insisting that a trans woman is a man in the light of previous respect she's shown trans people, in the lines I quote above. I don't know anything about India W.

IW is a former newsreader who now spends their time being a vicious, spiteful, abusive and goady misogynist on X slagging off women and encouraging their followers to abuse JKR and other ‘fat ugly middle aged bigot hags’ IW reported JKR to the police and then made a massive drama when told to go away.

IW hates women and is basically a horrible piece of work who gives it out non stop but can’t take it back.

They will ll probably be loving every bit of the attention because their whole existence is poking the bear then crying when they get bitten.

OP posts:
StellaAndCrow · 16/02/2025 08:35

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:54

In my opinion, there are circumstances where it definitely shouldn't be considered materially real, like entering changing rooms via self-ID and like bio men competing in women's sports.

No foetus starts off male. Foetuses that are genetically destined to be male are masculinized by producing a large amount of testosterone at six weeks. It's hardly a stretch to imagine that sometimes the process goes haywire, resulting in a mismatch between the body and brain. The process can result in a body that develops as male but a brain that is never exposed to the testosterone, because the brain is the last organ in the process to be affected. (It's why there are more trans women than trans men.) I learnt all this from the book "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps."

So I believe that some people absolutely are born experiencing life as the sex which is opposite to the body they inhabit and that they 100 percent truly and genuinely feel that they are the opposite sex in everything except body, and science says that that might well be correct.

'I learnt all this from the book "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps."'

OK, if this post is a parody, it's a really good one - that bit proper made me laugh!

Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 08:36

SolitaryWeasel · 16/02/2025 08:34

@ThisFluentBiscuit India willoughby is a misogynistic bully. She tweeted a nasty message with images implying Sandy Peggie looked more like a bigoted bully than Upton. The images show Sandy as exactly who she is, a totally normal, middle aged woman still grieving the very recent loss of her father and one who has been under unimaginable stress because of her persecution by Fife NHS and the vainglorious Upton. Meanwhile to my eyes Upton looks exactly who he is a smug, smirking, self-satisfied idiot. Nothing vulnerable there. Willoughby was saying that because Sandy doesn’t fulfil the classic transidentifying male’s idea of femininity i.e. pink and fluffy, short skirt, squealing and having a pillow fight in the street, she must be a wrong un and a bigot and a bully. JKR picked him up on this and why not? Why should we always be nice and kind and let this endless wave of shite wash over us?

And if I remember correctly, Willoughby has used just the same type of 'this woman doesn't look like my definition of a woman' post to encourage abuse of JKR in the past.

AnSolas · 16/02/2025 08:36

ThisFluentBiscuit · 16/02/2025 07:26

I'm stunned by JK's poem. I thought she was concerned about the safety risk of self-ID and the unfairness of bio men competing in women's sports, both concerns that I share. But I didn't realise that she completely invalidates trans people's experience of feeling that they are inhabiting the wrong shell and that inside, they are the opposite sex. I thought she was better than that.

A skin suit??
How Clarice had a little lamb you are.

One bloke trying to bully a woman because she expected her employer not to force her to undress beside some strange men but not other strange men?

Some people are also concerned that the NHS employ medics who admit he does not understand biology and who admits he expects other staff to assist in sexually assaulting a female who ended up in their hospital. They class little stuff like that as a safety risk.

By posting the bloke is posting to the whole wide world so other bullies can target the woman?

One such charming bully was asking for volunteers to assault and kidnap the woman and her legal team. He was too busy trying to out the nasty women who dare to create a live transcript of the event.