Public opinion turning against transgender ideology yougov poll

[Lovelyview]

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

'a new YouGov study, the fourth in a series reaching back to 2018, shows an increased scepticism towards transgender rights across the board – and particularly in the two and a half years since our previous wave of this study.
Notable in this most recent study – conducted in mid-December – is the growing resistance on transgender rights among those groups that are typically more permissive on the issue, like women and young people.
In fact, the only question on which women now take the permissive view on transgender rights is saying that people should be able to change their gender socially, although at 55% this still represents an eight point drop since the 2022 survey.'

Well worth a read and hopefully a sign of the direction of travel with this issue.

I assume you are asking how many trans women have penile inversions (therefore a partial penal removal) versus other forms of GRS? Well virtually all surgery of that type performed in the UK will be of that type. If you are asking the percentage of trans women that have GRS then this link will do…
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1383064/lgbtq-europe-gender-affirming-surgery/

This data will include females who have had mastectomies, no?

@OneQuirkyOrca Why is body modification the treatment for a mental health condition (gender dysphoria or gender dysmorphia)? Is there any point at which the providers of this body modification say "No more. You look enough like a [whatever] now." Or does the patient get to keep having surgeries and taking cross-sex hormones until they think they look how they think they should look? Why does that not come under elective cosmetic surgery, which the NHS will not do?

I think you are getting a little confused, it is Gender Dysphoria and Body Dysmorphia.

From what you describe you have/had Gender Incongruence. This is the condition that all trans people have be they trans non-binary or trans binary/transgender. Gender Incongruence is discomfort between your gender and natal sex). Gender Incongruence is a spectrum through a tiny amount through to overwhelming. Whilst sex is normally described as natal sex i.e. dictated by your genitals (even this is not binary because you can have a condition known as intersex where the genital anatomy is confused - medics put an X down for the child’s sexiness this case). Gender is how your brain perceives your sex. For most, of course, these are in line with each other but for trans people they are not.

For neurotypical people the lowest levels will be ignored. The next level up is more of an issue and some psychiatrists believe it may result in hate issues. Beyond this some, as you indicate will be able to live with it with no real issue. Others will use gender neutral or cross gender presentation to cope with it.

Eventually the Gender Incongruence gets destructive and the in is known as Gender Dysphoria. Whilst Gender Incongruence is mainly self diagnosed a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria is done by a specialist psychiatrist. This condition can lead to depression and is serious. If the patient cannot accept that they are transgender at this stage then the outcome is likely to be bleak but those that do and receive cross sex hormones generally thrive even though society pressures are against them.

Body Dysmorphia is a hate of a piece of your body. Transgender people often have this condition. Around 70% of trans men have it regarding their breasts but estimates shown that with trans women it is about 10% have it regarding their genitalia but around 30 eventually have surgery down there.

Oh by the way, on the age thing I help a lot of trans people that are 60 plus.

The only surgery that the NHS will carry out for those that is GRS (sex change in old money) for trans women and a mastectomy and GRS for a trans man. A vaginoplasty (surgery for trans women) is a single step surgery but the rarely performed GRS for trans men is a 3 step procedure.

Facial surgery is only available via private medicine.

The length of hormone treatment tends to be a lifelong thing but depends on the individual. The reason for this is to maintain bone density.

Trans binary is the set of trans people that contain trans women and trans men.

Trans is the umbrella term that refers to both trans non-binary, trans women and trans men.

Transgender is sometimes used as the umbrella term as well as trans but sometimes as the set containing trans women and trans men.

Just to make it more confusing trans non-binary is an umbrella term containing:
Bigender (pronounced Bye-gender): Mainly used by youngsters who tend to present as gender neutral or sometimes a mix such as having a beard and wearing a dress. The people will prefer to use the pronouns they and their.

Gender Fluid: Mainly the older generation and will present sometimes as one sex and at other times the opposite sex. Generally they will prefer the pronouns associated with their presentation.

Agender: these people have no perception of their own gender.

Flux: these people will change their gender. This is a rare condition. A typical scenario is that these people will go to bed feeling that they are male and wake up feeling female and then in a few days it changes again.

These are the main categories of trans non-binary but there are loads of further subcategories that I am not going to attempt to describe.

Yes, and men getting implants in their chests, and facial surgery.

I was interested in reading your posts until I reached this part @OneQuirkyOrca You over reached yourself.

Whilst sex is normally described as natal sex i.e. dictated by your genitals (even this is not binary because you can have a condition known as intersex where the genital anatomy is confused - medics put an X down for the child’s sexiness this case).

Mumsnet will not accept that the majority of trans people are committed and genuine and therefore taking hormones and having surgeries! Instead they tend to think they're all dirty perverts lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex. I expect they think the same of trans men, I mean they must also be wanting to leer at men by those standards.

No GRS or GRA figures are normally for surgery around the genitals. The UK at 35% is slightly higher than figures for trans women in the groups I support. All the trans men that I know (way smaller numbers than trans non-binary and trans women) have had mastectomies.

Mumsnet will not accept that the majority of trans people are committed and genuine and therefore taking hormones and having surgeries! Instead they tend to think they're all dirty perverts lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex.

Because those are the ."trans people" we're actually seeing every day, lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex.

Who am I gonna believe? You or my lyin' eyes?

My apologies, I didn’t notice what auto correct had done. It should have read:

medics put an X down for the child’s sex in this case.

I am trying to find out if I can edit the original post as that mistake is absolutely awful.

No wonder women have to wait so long for reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy due to breast cancer.

My sincere apologies for any offence I have caused due an auto correct issue with the following:

Whilst sex is normally described as natal sex i.e. dictated by your genitals (even this is not binary because you can have a condition known as intersex where the genital anatomy is confused - medics put an X down for the child’s sexiness this case)

The final section should read: medics put a X down for the child’s sex in this case.

I am so sorry to hear that. I have just read that some poor woman has been waiting 8 years to have her reconstructive surgery. That is totally unacceptable. I understand that some delays are caused by radio therapy treatment etc but surely that plus recovery time cannot be more than 18 months. The problem seems to be the lack of plastic surgeons in the UK.

Trans Women GRS surgery is done by specialist urology surgeons. Currently there are around 5 in the UK. Waiting times on the NHS work out at around 7 to 9 years. Most of the wait is to access two specialist psychiatrists. This is typically 5 years to get hormone treatment and then a further 2 to 5 years for surgery.

Urologists treat many problems including womens urinary problems.
Problems caused mainly later in life by women who have born children but also immediately after birth
These are critical matters for women and lengthy waiting lists for women are being hindered by operations for the trans community who do not have a medical need that is urgent.

If we had the doctors, the facilities and the money in the nhs women wouldn’t be waiting years and years.
Many never even get the treatment !!!! They justly deserve

Reader, this isn't factual.

Physically and medically the vast majority of trans people do nothing apart from change their hairstyle.

The number of males who want to be perceived as female who actually have their bits rearranged is vanishingly low, like 2 or 3% of them. The percentage of them who get fake tits is slightly higher, plastic surgery etc that's maybe slightly higher, but the actual whole works virtually never happens.

I see Stonewall are on the verge of collapse because they basically brought it on themselves.

I still never, ever understand why DSDs are brought into the gender ideology argument.
For starters all DSDs are all either male or female disorders of development. They aren't people of some sort of "third sex".

Secondly, even if you did believe that people with a DSD "prove" that sex isn't binary, that still doesn't explain how perfectly ordinary people with no DSD can change from being a man to being a woman or vice versa.

It's a total wind up and a really poor argument.

Really, the Daily Telegraph reported the following:

In the most recent year for which data is available (2023), 1,237 gender reassignment surgeries (GRS) were performed in the UK, with a slight increase each year from 2021. This included 1,089 in 2021 and 1,164 in 2022.

Now this is just the UK surgeons (5 for trans women). Most trans women go private and a lot have surgery abroad where the cost is much cheaper Thailand being one of the most popular.

Most of these are trans women.

This headliner from the national institute of health NIH
taken across a wider study

There seems to be a mismatch between you using the term GRS and the question as published. Can you please explain why there is this disconnect. The question as published was:

Share of transgender survey respondents having undergone surgery in order to change their body in a way that better matches their gender identity in Europe in 2019, by country

This question refers to any surgery, does it not?

I also note the year this was collected was 2019. I believe that quite a lot has changed at this time, including the number of male people declaring they are female but wishing to keep their penis intact and working.

Do you have recent data to match the 35% of male people with transgender identities undergoing vaginoplasty surgery in the UK that you have stated please?

“No GRS or GRA figures are normally for surgery around the genitals.”

Also, what are you referring to when you mention GRA figures, please? What does GRA mean in the sentence you posted please?

You seem to have some pretty entrenched prejudice around how posters on MN perceive people with transgender identities. And keen to characterise that perception using absolutist and hyperbolic language.

However, from my reading of posts on other threads, you seem to prefer to use blanket statements that you cannot support with evidence so I assume you have no evidence to support your claim here either.

Errr…. No. Tests will confirm whether the child is male or female. “Intersex” is not a third sex. All DSD affect either males or females. No DSD affects both sexes. Surely the fact people with DSD exist confirms the se binary. If se was not a binary, how would we know someone had a DSD?

The only surgery that the NHS will carry out for those that is GRS (sex change in old money) for trans women and a mastectomy and GRS for a trans man. A vaginoplasty (surgery for trans women) is a single step surgery but the rarely performed GRS for trans men is a 3 step procedure.

These surgeries do not solve any physical medical problem, they are elective cosmetic surgeries.
*
Facial surgery is only available via private medicine. *

Private medicine should be held to different ethical standards than publicly funded medicine?

The length of hormone treatment tends to be a lifelong thing but depends on the individual. The reason for this is to maintain bone density.

Lifelong HRT with GNRH agonists and the hormones of the opposite sex does not maintain bone density. Quite the opposite: it causes osteoporosis. Oestrogen suppression causes osteoporosis in women. Testosterone suppression causes osteoporosis in men.

I ask again, why is physically harming people the treatment for their mental health conditions (gender dysphoria or gender dysmorphia)?