Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

No one has said that they can always tell on this thread but it’s been said before by people on here.

it has been said, but many more posters have said that sometimes you can’t tell

if you worked with a man or woman for years and then found out they were trans would you automatically refer to them as their biological sex?

I can't say what I'd do as I don't know, because it's a vanishingly unlikely proposition.

I think that you have just shown yourself to be arbitrating who is and who isn't a person with a transgender identity.

On a thread declaring that MN is 'anti-trans', that would be something I would consider to be transphobic.

Well after being busy for two hours and coming back to a few pages of swearing and ranting about my fucking ridiculous ideas of femininity and how concerning, reductive and stupid it is, I don't really feel like engaging in any more conversation on my feelings of femininity tbh.

Regardless of what the furious women here believe, my concept of femininity doesn't include the way I looked or felt when I was fat, hairy and infertile. If they find that disgusting or stupid then fuck them.

FWR has FWR'd, gone on an angry tirade and then claimed to be inoffensive and nothing other than a robust discussion. 🙄

You have come back and seen women swearing about the concept of being held to particular standards of feminity (ie. not swearing at you at all).

No one is attacking you, personally. I mean, a poster asked you a question about your statement, but was telling you, personally, how they felt about femininity.

And then expressed frustration about their self- imposed boundary on swearing in frustration at feeling that society would be imposing such boundaries on femininity and why.

We don't actually have to agree with your opinion and people are entitled to find some of the conclusions you draw offensive, just like you are entitled to find offence in things other women say, @SailorSerena

Because he hasn’t transitioned at all.

Being trans means you physically transition.

A man who has taken no steps to transition is not trans.

That doesn’t make me transphobic.

I understand.

I know with my own infertility I felt like less of a woman.

I can’t describe it more than that, and I know a lot of women have struggled with those same feelings. 💔

A man who has taken no steps to transition is not trans.

That doesn’t make me transphobic.

There are those who'd say he, sorry she is trans and that you're transphobic though.

So the TRAs would call you a "transmedicalist" and probably some less polite terms, one of which would be the same slur they use for women like me as they would see your belief that physical transitioning is necessary to be "trans" as fundamentally transphobic, @Princessconsuelabananahammock9

So you would say that a man who has been issued a gender recognition certificate stating he is now female is still not trans unless he has had surgery.

So?

Yes. They probably would.

My partner would also be considered transphobic by some people.

I’d say unless he’s taken hormones or surgery that he hasn’t transitioned from anything.

So he's legally a female but hasn't transitioned

@BeaAndBen Oh shit, I fucking love a bollocking swear word. And usually use a nice "fuck off" as a term of endearment 😳. Does this mean I'm doing my womaning all wrong because I'm not skipping around the forest like Snow White? Can't go on what my cat thinks because he finds everyone uncouth and beneath him 😂.

So, @Princessconsuelabananahammock9 , you don't think you're transphobic, but some might say you are. Same goes for most of us on MN but you think some/many are. There are trans people who are themselves accused of transphobia (even being - very unsuccessfully- taken to court for it by someone who wasn't trans).

That remains to be seen, doesn't it. According to many transgender support groups, and many transgender people, you most definitely would be.

I have to agree with those groups to be honest. Maybe that is my programming coming through that I have been told repeatedly that if someone says they are trans, I must believe them.

Yet, you don't believe this and you reject my statement that your attitude in this instance is transphobic.

I personally also find it cruel to expect any person to have to medically change themselves to fit your personal definition of a 'transgender' person.

It would seem so.

It is remarkable.

Do you then feel that you are someone who feels confident in both evaluating if someone else is transphobic?

The transphobic element of your position is that you are deciding someone’s identity on their behalf, according to your beliefs.

Would you do the same for someone if you were talking about race, or disability, or a health condition?

Gender critical and transphobic/anti-trans are not the same thing. People don't have to kowtow and pretend to believe something in order to be supportive around an extremely complicated issue. We need good, compassionate, respectful discussion and critical thinking from all angles on this highly complex subject. Not witch hunts, from either side.

Ah ok, just wanted to clarify. So you think man means 'male', or as close to as possible. As in, a man is about the biological body, and not what someone's like as a person/their inner characteristics.

How does this differ with what most of MN think?

You're now telling someone who has a trans partner that they are transphobic?