Page 13 | Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

Hoosemover · 2025-02-08T17:21:50+00:00

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission. https://x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

Maaate · 10/02/2025 11:41

"pretty" is subjective anyway, so is pretty meaningless as a measure of anything.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2025 11:46

@BeaAndBen - good post. The PP has rather explicitly fallen into the genderist trap of conflating 'femininity' with 'being a real woman'.

There's still plenty of people with this regressive mindset of course. Many still take it beyond the shallow level of appearance and try to apply it to behaviour, aspirations ..... Their supposed 'real women' defer to men, speak softly, aren't assertive or ambitious etc etc.

BeaAndBen · 10/02/2025 11:51

I’m a little embarrassed how many swear words I had to remove from that post before submitting it, by the way. If we had a swear jar I’d be in significant debt. The cat is sitting here disapproving my cussing because I got noisy.

Maybe he thinks I’m unladylike 😉

Lyn348 · 10/02/2025 11:51

Scutterbug · 08/02/2025 22:24

Lots of people quoted me but I haven’t time to reply individually.
Opinions on what is transphobic are very differing. I think that insisting that being trans is a mental illness is incredibly insulting but it is regularly peddled here.
Also often suggested that if you support trans rights you don’t support women’s rights which is absolute nonsense.
I think that being derogatory and disrespectful is akin to transphobia whereas others will disagree.
I stand by what I said though, I would never suggest that any friends of mine who are trans, should come here for support!

I'm one of those people who believe gender dysphoria to be a mental illness in the same way that body dysmorphia is a mental illness. It was classified in this way until 5 or 6 years ago when is was changed to a sexual condition. The main reason for this that I can find seems to be to lessen stigmatisation.

To me this is a really worrying approach and means rather than getting the counselling and help they need, people with gender dysphoria are affirmed and can even be supported in removing perfectly healthy parts of their body. Can you imagine another condition where people would be supported to do that?

It really worries me for the teen girls I work with, some of them autistic, who have a complete hatred for their bodies.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2025 11:54

@BeaAndBen - good post. The PP has rather explicitly fallen into the genderist trap of conflating 'femininity' with 'being a real woman'.

There's still plenty of people with this regressive mindset of course. Many still take it beyond the shallow level of appearance and try to apply it to behaviour, aspirations ..... Their supposed 'real women' defer to men, speak softly, aren't assertive or ambitious etc etc.

YY. And then they not only believe in outdated stereotypes, but have the presumptuous notion that other people should frame their own experiences and needs around that belief too.

OccasionalHope · 10/02/2025 11:57

With all we know now it’s a badge of honour really.

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 12:01

BeaAndBen · 10/02/2025 11:37

And yes, a big part of wanting to be a real woman is wanting to be pretty, because a big part of femininity is being pretty. Anybody who doesn't think that is taking their natural femininity for granted in my opinion

I’m still stuck on this post. What the ever-loving hell is this???

I am not very feminine. I have less than no interest in being pretty, nor attractive to men (apart from the one individual man in the world that I have lived with for 35 years.) I have given up plucking my chin and just use a razor for the facial hair I have (and hate). I am very fat.

I am not less of a ‘real’ woman - hell, in sheer size, I am more - because I don’t perform femininity. I think it is outrageous of someone to suggest being feminine and pretty and aspiring to be attractive is intrinsically part of being a ‘real’ woman. Am I bloody Pinocchio in this scenario, @SailorSerena ?

That’s the gender oppression our patriarchal society tries to impose on us - which we feminists have been battling for decades.

I can’t ‘feel like a man’ - in drag or otherwise- because that’s literally impossible; I’m female. I could feel like I imagine a man might feel, but that’s just a guess based on my (female) interpretation of what men think and feel.

I can’t feel like a cat or a Christmas tree either.

I am a woman because every cell in my body is female and my body is formed for the production of large gametes and the gestation of offspring. Of which I have three. Needing to shave my chin doesn’t negate any of that.

Sorry to jump back a bit in the discussion, but it really bothered me. (Even with the excellent challenges to it by others)

I have found this discussion about 'pretty' to be concerning. Because I don't do 'pretty' but that doesn't make me any less of a woman. And it all feels reductive.

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 12:01

BeaAndBen · 10/02/2025 11:51

I’m a little embarrassed how many swear words I had to remove from that post before submitting it, by the way. If we had a swear jar I’d be in significant debt. The cat is sitting here disapproving my cussing because I got noisy.

Maybe he thinks I’m unladylike 😉

Fucking oath... you can fucking swear as much as you fucking want.

BeaAndBen · 10/02/2025 12:10

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 12:01

Fucking oath... you can fucking swear as much as you fucking want.

Show quote history

I was fucking furious at the fucking obscene implication that anyone is less of a fucking woman because she doesn’t play the fucking beauty pageant Pick Me game for male fucking attention. Fuck that fucking bullshit.

My entire fucking life has been harmed as a consequence of being female. I live daily with pain and difficulties as a result of damage caused by pregnancy and a birth that went badly. Pretty has nothing to do with it.

(Cat has now stalked off in search of more quiet companions. Eldest is still asleep, so he’ll probably try there)

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 12:12

I completely understand Bea

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 12:45

Maaate · 10/02/2025 07:19

I don’t have an issue with protecting women’s spaces and keeping “trans women” out of women’s sports.

You're as much of a "transphobe" as the rest of us.

Not quite because I don’t believe being trans precludes someone from employment in emergency services.

Nor would I deliberately call someone a woman just to make a point.

popefully · 10/02/2025 12:50

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 Earlier you said your partner presents as a man.
When you say that - 'man' - do you mean:

a physically male person, or
a person of either sex who has some traits that make them a man?

If the latter, can you give any example of such a trait?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 12:50

popefully · 10/02/2025 07:56

By "man" (presents as a man) do you mean a physically male person, or do you mean a person of either sex who has some traits that make them a man? If so, can you give any example of such a trait?

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I mean physically.

He transitioned 15 years ago.

I would say his lived experience as a female is what makes him an amazing partner.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 12:52

popefully · 10/02/2025 12:50

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 Earlier you said your partner presents as a man.
When you say that - 'man' - do you mean:

a physically male person, or
a person of either sex who has some traits that make them a man?

If the latter, can you give any example of such a trait?

He’s been on testosterone for 15 years. He’s had top surgery. He looks like a man and the world perceives him as a man.

Yes he’s a trans man. There’s a clear difference.

FriedGold32 · 10/02/2025 12:53

Edit: wrong thread

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 12:55

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 09:06

But you have again taken the dramatic 'everyone can tell' route.

No. Not everyone 'can tell', at least not immediately. Some people will never be able to tell. Some people might be able to tell straight away.

However, what about the people who can tell. Do they have to pretend that they cannot tell? Do they have to fully support a philosophical belief that your partner is male in any way? Why does you and your partner's philosophical belief in your partner's identity take priority over someone who wishes to use accurate language?

Do you believe that unless someone fully complies with your philosophical belief that they are transphobic? Yet, you don't fully comply to some male people's demands to support their philosophical belief in that you don't believe that they are female for specific instances. Aren't you then transphobic?

Or do you get to be the arbitrator of what is transphobic and what is not?

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I’m not being dramatic. I’ve been told many times on here that everyone can tell.

I don’t believe trans women or trans men are female or male.

I believe they are trans.

The trans means something.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2025 13:02

I don’t believe trans women or trans men are female or male.

I believe they are trans.

Everyone has a sex. And sometimes it matters which sex someone is. I'm sure it's not convenient for some people to acknowledge the existence of biological sex, but again we're back to everyone being equally important and having rights. Trans people and their supporters do not have the right to impose their own personal belief system on me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2025 13:02

Sorry I meant to quote you @Princessconsuelabananahammock9

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 13:06

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 12:55

I’m not being dramatic. I’ve been told many times on here that everyone can tell.

I don’t believe trans women or trans men are female or male.

I believe they are trans.

The trans means something.

Show quote history

The term trans in your post is an indicator that those people who claim the term for themselves have a philosophical belief about how they identify themselves.

Can you find someone saying that 'everyone can tell' please? I think that it is not a believable statement except that in each person with a transgender identity's case, there will be likely multiple people at some time with various degrees of interaction that will be able to correctly sex that person.

Hence, no person with a transgender identity will pass 100% of the time to 100% of people in the world.

Do you believe that someone with a transgender identity will 100% pass, 100% of the time?

And it is irrelevant that you don't believe that 'trans women or trans men are female or male' because they remain the sex that they were born, whether you or they believe this or not. And expecting any other person to support your personal belief in this in language, law, and policy is unreasonable.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 13:10

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 13:06

The term trans in your post is an indicator that those people who claim the term for themselves have a philosophical belief about how they identify themselves.

Can you find someone saying that 'everyone can tell' please? I think that it is not a believable statement except that in each person with a transgender identity's case, there will be likely multiple people at some time with various degrees of interaction that will be able to correctly sex that person.

Hence, no person with a transgender identity will pass 100% of the time to 100% of people in the world.

Do you believe that someone with a transgender identity will 100% pass, 100% of the time?

And it is irrelevant that you don't believe that 'trans women or trans men are female or male' because they remain the sex that they were born, whether you or they believe this or not. And expecting any other person to support your personal belief in this in language, law, and policy is unreasonable.

Edited

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I’m saying I don’t believe they transition from their biological sex.

I’m agreeing with you. Sheesh.

No one has said that they can always tell on this thread but it’s been said before by people on here.

My memory is quite clear.

Waitwhat23 · 10/02/2025 13:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2025 13:02

I don’t believe trans women or trans men are female or male.

I believe they are trans.

Everyone has a sex. And sometimes it matters which sex someone is. I'm sure it's not convenient for some people to acknowledge the existence of biological sex, but again we're back to everyone being equally important and having rights. Trans people and their supporters do not have the right to impose their own personal belief system on me.

There's an A&E doctor in court today insisting that he's biologically female.

And that women should be forced to change in front of him or face being forced from employment if they do not follow his personal belief system.

1984 has just been mentioned in court. It seems an apt analogy.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 13:17

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2025 13:02

I don’t believe trans women or trans men are female or male.

I believe they are trans.

Everyone has a sex. And sometimes it matters which sex someone is. I'm sure it's not convenient for some people to acknowledge the existence of biological sex, but again we're back to everyone being equally important and having rights. Trans people and their supporters do not have the right to impose their own personal belief system on me.

I have a question.

if you worked with a man or woman for years and then found out they were trans would you automatically refer to them as their biological sex?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 13:19

Waitwhat23 · 10/02/2025 13:12

There's an A&E doctor in court today insisting that he's biologically female.

And that women should be forced to change in front of him or face being forced from employment if they do not follow his personal belief system.

1984 has just been mentioned in court. It seems an apt analogy.

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That’s just a man being an asshole.

I think it’s ok to acknowledge that a lot of men have destroyed trans acceptance.

spannasaurus · 10/02/2025 13:20

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 10/02/2025 13:19

That’s just a man being an asshole.

I think it’s ok to acknowledge that a lot of men have destroyed trans acceptance.

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Why do you say dr upton is a man?

Waitwhat23 · 10/02/2025 13:24

He says he's female. He's said (under oath) that he's had no surgery/hormones etc but his inherent gender identity makes him female.

Under self id, that's all that's needed. And that's what is being currently argued in court. A woman was suspended from her work for not going along with it. She was expected to change in front of him because he says he's a woman.

How's he different to anyone else who claims this through self id?