NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #6

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

NC said she'd be questioning Kate Searle next week.

I made a note.

Was the inappropriate email KS sent 17 A&E colleagues known about by NC, or is this part of what she's just discovered from the v late document dump last night? I'm just checking my understanding on this part.

As a TU official who worked in NHS - I can tell you - that many suspensions in the NHS are entirely mishandled and many are due to "witch hunts" that are later overturned.

Do the NHS have insurance?
I was under the impression that government bodies just took the hits as insurance would be astronomical.
I assume it will affect the trust budget which is very unfair on the patients and why trusts need to get these matters sorted before they go to court.

Apropos of nothing, I've a friend who's an intensive care nurse. I was very surprised speaking to her recently that she's convinced Lucy Letby is innocent. The reason she thinks that is because she's seen so many people be scapegoated to cover for department errors over her career. I was shocked how cynical she was about the NHS. She didn't seem to have any faith in management at all.

Do the NHS have insurance?

I believe the taxpayer via the Government foot the bill as they are for this and every other hearing the NHS are involved in.

On a side note, years ago my OH did some IT contracting work for the DWP and they were well known for buck passing, hiding evidence and blaming other people. He said the whole place was rife with it. One time, someone from the DWP messed up the working of a newly installed programme, so blamed the contractors, but the techies looked at the access files and found exactly who it was, and it wasn't a contractor. It seems to be everywhere, doesn't it.

As I wrote somewhere up thread or previous thread. My NHS contract requires me to hold professional indemnity insurance so that if they have to defend me, they can then in return recoup.

Not sure how this works though

Involving which parties? (My security software blocks nitter and I can't see much on Twitter.)

If that is as described, it would seem to attract the usual MN summaries of drama llama and flying monkeys for the sender and instigator.

I suppose time, and the disclosure of emails, will reveal all.

I dont use twitter and probably have the same security software as it tells me nitter is dodgy. Curious about the tone of comments.

Excellent

I am crushing so hard on NC

I'm doing some NHS adjacent work and the system this trust uses deletes emails automatically after one month. I don't know if they get backed up anywhere (but would hope so!).

I haven't the time or energy to keep track of all that is happenings on this case. Is anywhere doing a day by day summery that anyone knows of?

We dont know whether the email referred to SP or not. It may have been a general one about changing rooms, it may have described a "hate incident", Best not to speculate until it's public information.

So, can somewhere such as NHS Fife just happily splurge public money on cases they want to pursue (even for possibly political purposes) till the cows come home?

What if it transpired (thanks to the close inspection by NC) that they were using it to unfairly and unjustly harass an employee? Would there be any comeback to those responsible, I wonder?

This throws up lots of questions.

But the most ridiculous part about this quote is

You've chosen to misgender him.

There's probably a summary somewhere but essentially missing security man so started near lunch. NC said NHS fife and DrU have not disclosed documents and therefore failed to comply with an order from the previous judge. Cue unhappy judge demanding to know why not and a discussion on whether to adjourn or NHS fife to be told to do a proper look. (they are supposed to look and JR manages to find 4 extra emails there and then). DrU turned up with his support posse, cross exam put off until Monday and they finished early.

In the NHS?? You are having a laugh imagining there is anything like that level of preparedness- no idea who they will have working on this over the weekend but I'd be surprised if there are any staff in IT or HR out of hours at all - our IT is outsourced anyway and rubbish 9-5, pretty well non-existent outside office hours.

https://x.com/search?q=%23IStandWithSandiePeggie&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Just on the I Stand with Peggie hashtag

I put a link, not sure if it will work.

NC said something like "the tone was inflammatory", to the extent that, given it was sent to 17 (IIRC) recipients, she found it difficult to believe no one had replied.

In case anyone is getting withdrawal symptoms as this thread becomes quieter over the weekend, this case was discussed in AIBU:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5267835-a-man-undressing-in-front-of-a-woman-without-her-consent-is-an-act-of-intimidation-and-control-men-do-not-acquire-consent-by-identifying-as-women

Thank you!

Your indemnity insurance covers you screwing up - so if someone sued because of your negligence and won the insurance company pays up. NHS indemnity covers everything else - ie faulty equipment and so on. I may be totally wrong on this but I think that's how it works. Not sure what happens if you commit crime or lie though.

Another Fife organisation not covering itself in glory - the council are being forced to provide an interpreter for a deaf child, but only after she took them to court:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3d5lzyry14o

There is also NHS Resolution, formerly known as the NHS Litigation Authority - but that deals with payouts to patients who have experienced clinical negligence.