Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I refuse to use the term Trans Woman? Am I guilty of Harassment?

148 replies

eulittleb831 · 06/02/2025 07:25

I read this brilliant piece by Josephine Bartosch who properly avoided the use of the misrepresentative term "Trans Woman" in the article and instead opted for "trans-identified male" to describe a.......... male identifying as trans. In doing so is she, like myself, guilty of "harassment" for not feeding into the trans-activist narrative and refusing to refer to a man as a woman, or any form of woman which might upset "Beth/Brian/Frank" whatever his name is?

thecritic.co.uk/describing-reality-is-not-harassment/

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/02/2025 10:33

Actually happy to use that label as it is a clear distinction between that person and an actual biological adult human female

HipMax · 06/02/2025 10:35

bigvig · 06/02/2025 07:44

I don't see a problem with the term trans woman. I do have a problem with being told that trans women are actual women and that they can have access to women's spaces. Pick your battles I think. Trans woman makes sense as a category and many trans women are not predatory men so why offend them for the sake of it.

It doesn't make sense. It puts them as a type of woman, which they are not.

They are men and will always be men. I personally just call them men, but trans identified makes seems polite enough while being accurate

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 06/02/2025 10:36

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/06/third-of-britons-dont-know-trans-women-born-male/

A third of Britons don’t know that trans women are born male.

It’s long been discussed.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/02/2025 10:37

Convolvulus · 06/02/2025 09:03

Also, any man who claims he is a woman and expects to access women’s spaces is predatory.

Nonsense. This is downgrading what "predatory" means.

Why else would a biological male expect entry to a safe female space? It hardly screams "I come with pure intentions " does it? Confused

eulittleb831 · 06/02/2025 10:39

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/02/2025 10:33

Actually happy to use that label as it is a clear distinction between that person and an actual biological adult human female

Is the distinction clear? Why are we using the prefix “biological woman” suggesting there is a “non-biological woman” and there are different forms of women? I don’t see why a male
who likes dressing as how a male thinks women dress, or chooses to do so, becomes a form of a woman? If he wears big ears and trunk is he legitimately a trans elephant?

OP posts:
namechangeGOT · 06/02/2025 10:42

I refuse also. They're not trans women, transwomen or any other type of woman. They're men. And I'll still call them men.

INeedAnotherName · 06/02/2025 10:44

RatedDoingMagic · 06/02/2025 09:59

Occasionally, though my mother taught me never to refer to people in that way. "That police officer" "That teacher" "That shop assistant" is better. Honestly how often do you need to talk about anyone in the 3rd person when you know absolutely nothing about them except guessing whether they are male or female based on their clothing?

except guessing whether they are male or female based on their clothing?

Oh gawd, did you really mean to type that? Because sex is not based on clothing, hair length or lipstick 🙄

It's so obvious who is male based on a lot of different physical attributes. Then there is usually the male entitlement slapped on top.

Devilsmommy · 06/02/2025 10:53

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 06/02/2025 10:36

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/06/third-of-britons-dont-know-trans-women-born-male/

A third of Britons don’t know that trans women are born male.

It’s long been discussed.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. Which is why I said that we should just be allowed to call a spade a spade to avoid all the confusion

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/02/2025 10:55

OP. You make a good point however for me, I'm picking my battles as the fight to protect women and kids from a harmful ideology is a long way from over and amongst a tiny handful of allowances I'm prepared to make this is one of them.

HollyBerryz · 06/02/2025 10:58

So just call them a woman. No legal issue there 🤷‍♀️

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 06/02/2025 11:02

namechangeGOT · 06/02/2025 10:42

I refuse also. They're not trans women, transwomen or any other type of woman. They're men. And I'll still call them men.

But but what about their fweewings?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 06/02/2025 11:05

HollyBerryz · 06/02/2025 10:58

So just call them a woman. No legal issue there 🤷‍♀️

No, but quite a serious reality issue.

namechangeGOT · 06/02/2025 11:47

But but what about their fweewings?

@Wemaybebetterstrangers

Well, luckily, I don't give a fuck about their feelings!

RatedDoingMagic · 06/02/2025 11:58

AnSolas · 06/02/2025 10:27

Can you only use clothing while attempting to correctly sex a human?

If you were at an accident and it was two police officers in the same generic outfit, blond, clean shaven, stab vest, yellow coat and a hat would you not be able to sex them to a high degree of sucess.

Of course. It's totally possible to know, and to recognise that someone is trying to pretend to be the opposite sex. The OPs question was about how to refer to such a person out loud without saying "Trans woman" and I have given a large number of ways one could do so without being deliberately inflamatory. No one has to pretend that men are women or vice versa but it's perfectly possible to be true to reality without being rude.

Even in the 1980s I was told "you don't call someone a Lady unless you know she's a Lady and refer to her as such ie "Lady Mary" but saying "woman" instead sounds rude so find some other way until you know their name.

Justkeeprollingalong · 06/02/2025 12:16

I'm offended by being referred to as a cis woman.
I was born a girl, I have given birth. I am a woman. No need for a qualifying word, thank you.

JazzyJelly · 06/02/2025 12:17

WaitingForMojo · 06/02/2025 08:17

It’s not 50% who are offended. Very few have a problem with it. I’m a cis woman, and have no problem with that.
You don’t get to speak for other women, only yourself.

And you speak for yourself! I'm not cis because I don't identify with any gender, I think the whole concept is bollocks.

I'm just a woman, because that's how biology works.

ScientificallyMagical · 06/02/2025 12:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

namechangeGOT · 06/02/2025 13:13

Justkeeprollingalong · 06/02/2025 12:16

I'm offended by being referred to as a cis woman.
I was born a girl, I have given birth. I am a woman. No need for a qualifying word, thank you.

I agree. If we must have a pre-fix to 'woman'. Perhaps 'real' or 'actual' would be better than cis?

Or, let's instead give the men the pre-fix and call the 'fake' or 'pretend' women?

Mrsbloggz · 06/02/2025 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

tigger1001 · 06/02/2025 13:36

Justkeeprollingalong · 06/02/2025 12:16

I'm offended by being referred to as a cis woman.
I was born a girl, I have given birth. I am a woman. No need for a qualifying word, thank you.

Yep - 100% agree. Very few in my experience use cis - but if someone refers to me as that, I correct them, and if they ask why I say I find that term offensive.

AnSolas · 06/02/2025 13:58

RatedDoingMagic · 06/02/2025 11:58

Of course. It's totally possible to know, and to recognise that someone is trying to pretend to be the opposite sex. The OPs question was about how to refer to such a person out loud without saying "Trans woman" and I have given a large number of ways one could do so without being deliberately inflamatory. No one has to pretend that men are women or vice versa but it's perfectly possible to be true to reality without being rude.

Even in the 1980s I was told "you don't call someone a Lady unless you know she's a Lady and refer to her as such ie "Lady Mary" but saying "woman" instead sounds rude so find some other way until you know their name.

No one has to pretend that men are women or vice versa

So NHS in brighton (?) instructed staff to place any man who requested it on the Womans ward. The staff must place the man onto the main ward even if a single room was available.
To tell the women on a female only ward that man was a woman and to treat the female as if she was a White Woman objecting to being on the same ward as a Black Woman and to "punish" the woman by removing her from the ward.

Since self ID in 2015 Ireland has 3 men if the Womes (female only) Prison.
One complains to Prision Inspection team as his lower half is being unlawfully strip searched by men when his top half is lawfully strip searched by women. He would win that court case.

One has is so violent that he had to go to court to prevent a permenant sectioning. He been in care since his early teens and due to targeted attacks on women for staff safety had to be managed by male only teams. The UK Iaws allows transferrs between the two prison systems the Irish laws dont the Irish government says he is a woman and therefore can not be moved Mens prison system.

The Scottish government had the very public problem of man jailed for rape placed in the Womens system so invented Rapist Gender.

There are other men in the UK womens prison system. And there as across the world women in the prison system can be punished by longer terms if they dont pretend the male prisioner is a woman.

Scottish rape crisis services hired a man into an advertised woman only position and women were told to reframe their trama when wanting women only groups to mean no men at all.

In the UK a woman is going through court as a rape center refuses to provide any women female only groups.

The woman who objected to the male in her work changing room had to get permission from the court to be allowed to use "man" and "he" etc.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

That after her employer decided she was changing along side a woman.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5267835-a-man-undressing-in-front-of-a-woman-without-her-consent-is-an-act-of-intimidation-and-control-men-do-not-acquire-consent-by-identifying-as-women?page=1

A similar English case is pending.

And media reports of sexual offence convictions with "her penis" are common place as the media standard is to pretend it was a woman waving her penis out the window at children......

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board - thread #2 | Mumsnet

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

WaitingForMojo · 06/02/2025 14:00

JazzyJelly · 06/02/2025 12:17

And you speak for yourself! I'm not cis because I don't identify with any gender, I think the whole concept is bollocks.

I'm just a woman, because that's how biology works.

I did speak for myself, thanks. It was the pp who purported to speak for all women!

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 06/02/2025 14:04

AnSolas · 06/02/2025 13:58

No one has to pretend that men are women or vice versa

So NHS in brighton (?) instructed staff to place any man who requested it on the Womans ward. The staff must place the man onto the main ward even if a single room was available.
To tell the women on a female only ward that man was a woman and to treat the female as if she was a White Woman objecting to being on the same ward as a Black Woman and to "punish" the woman by removing her from the ward.

Since self ID in 2015 Ireland has 3 men if the Womes (female only) Prison.
One complains to Prision Inspection team as his lower half is being unlawfully strip searched by men when his top half is lawfully strip searched by women. He would win that court case.

One has is so violent that he had to go to court to prevent a permenant sectioning. He been in care since his early teens and due to targeted attacks on women for staff safety had to be managed by male only teams. The UK Iaws allows transferrs between the two prison systems the Irish laws dont the Irish government says he is a woman and therefore can not be moved Mens prison system.

The Scottish government had the very public problem of man jailed for rape placed in the Womens system so invented Rapist Gender.

There are other men in the UK womens prison system. And there as across the world women in the prison system can be punished by longer terms if they dont pretend the male prisioner is a woman.

Scottish rape crisis services hired a man into an advertised woman only position and women were told to reframe their trama when wanting women only groups to mean no men at all.

In the UK a woman is going through court as a rape center refuses to provide any women female only groups.

The woman who objected to the male in her work changing room had to get permission from the court to be allowed to use "man" and "he" etc.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

That after her employer decided she was changing along side a woman.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5267835-a-man-undressing-in-front-of-a-woman-without-her-consent-is-an-act-of-intimidation-and-control-men-do-not-acquire-consent-by-identifying-as-women?page=1

A similar English case is pending.

And media reports of sexual offence convictions with "her penis" are common place as the media standard is to pretend it was a woman waving her penis out the window at children......

Sarah Summers has a court date, finally!! Extracts taken from her crowd justice fundraiser :

Sarah Summers
Case Owner
I’m suing Brighton’s Rape Crisis Centre Survivors’ Network for discrimination because it refused to provide a women-only peer support group. I am a survivor of sexual abuse.

We have a court date!
At last, I have a court date! Finally, my case has been listed for a final hearing on 22nd-30th September 2025 in Brighton County Court. It has been a long road so far and I am so grateful to all of you who have supported me to get to this point. I look forward to seeing the case through to conclusion and finally being able to move on with my life. It is not over yet, but I take comfort from the fact that the end is in sight and I hope the right conclusion is reached.

HipMax · 06/02/2025 14:06

WaitingForMojo · 06/02/2025 14:00

I did speak for myself, thanks. It was the pp who purported to speak for all women!

I'd say most women don't like it, but it doesn't really matter. It's a ridiculous tautological term. There is only one category of women. We are not cis women , we are just women. Trans women are men, ie not women.

blacksax · 06/02/2025 14:09

WaitingForMojo · 06/02/2025 08:17

It’s not 50% who are offended. Very few have a problem with it. I’m a cis woman, and have no problem with that.
You don’t get to speak for other women, only yourself.

I have a problem with it.

They can take their 'cis' and stick it, along with the rough end of a pineapple, where the sun don't shine.

Swipe left for the next trending thread