Can we talk about bisexuality?

[Pluvia]

Just that really. I'm a lesbian, one of a number seeking to rebuild new lesbian and LGB networks after our established communities and events and hang-outs and culture have been trashed by the TQIA+ brigade.

Lesbians and gay men are feeling really beleaguered. We've seen almost every sphere of gay and lesbian life infiltrated by 'queer', trans and spicy straight people all using the events and groups we've founded for their own purposes — mainly of validation. Pride has been taken over by the T. Our cafes, pubs, bars, all gone.

I think a significant number of gay and lesbian activists are finding it increasingly difficult to work out where bisexuality fits into all this. I'm in a number of different LGB groups and this issue has started to crop up in them. People who join describing themselves as bisexual and wanting to get involved in helping rebuild their local LGB communities turn out to be in long-term, stable heterosexual relationships. Some of them for 20+ years. Some bi people in such relationships want to involve their straight partners on the basis that although the partner is straight, they are in relationship with a bi person who isn't — but who, to the outside world, looks straight.

Does it matter? Well, if you're in a heterosexual relationship you're unlikely to experience the everyday (usually minor) moments that most of us who are out still encounter. Things like the need to come out regularly to people who assume that we're in straight relationships, the slight but still palpable 'othering' that sometimes comes when people realise they're talking to someone who isn't just like them. Sometimes it's much more pointed. And if we hold, say, an LGB club night, so that LGB people can associate without the straight gaze, should we allow bisexuals to bring their straight partners? Doesn't that negate the intention of the event?

Bisexual people who are living in a heterosexual relationship have the security of being undercover. They may not see it like that, of course, but they pass as straight. I'm pretty sure that one of the bi women who's involved in one of the groups I'm in is a straight woman who bases her bisexual identity on the fact that she had a relationship with a woman while at university, many years ago.

I don't know if there's a solution to this. I think lesbians and gay men are much more cautious around the dangers of self-ID and identity politics than they ever were. How are other groups handling this?

He knew I wasn't poly, it was infuriating. It was something he felt entitled to because I'm bi. As you said though, one dick only. It could only be with other women. 😡

No, I was dropping an aside about how when a guy wants a poly relationship, there's only one dick allowed: his.

Nothing to do with gold stars wanting other gold stars.

My god that's horrific. So sorry. I had no clue that was thing.

Saying "thanks, but no thanks" is an option. Visible disgust facial expression, as though I'd just suggested coprophilia, isn't a very nice way to treat someone who is being honest about her orientation because she recognises that it can be a deal-breaker.

This is actually a form of misogyny and lesbophobia. The man thinks that sex between women isn't really sex, that it doesn't count. Again, you could probably have a whole thread on this.

I'm coming around to the idea that bi women need spaces just for bi women, explicitly stated as such, because lesbians never face this crap that we face. By extension, lesbians should have the right to their own spaces just for them and explicitly stated as such, because they face crap that we don't.

Lesbians do not face thsi from male partners because they do not have male partners. Lesbian couples who look pretty and feminine do routinely get men assuming that the couple might accept a man getting involved

You have spectacularly missed the point.

Preferring not to date or sleep with women who are bi? That's absolutely fine. A thanks but no thanks would suffice. Treating someone like they're shit on your shoe because they're bi? Absolutely not ok. And that happens on both sides.

When I was with my ex-girlfriend we would often get harrassed in the street, mostly by men if we dared to hold hands or kiss in public.

Not only that, but bi women can experience discrimination in straight relationships too (like the experience I shared above) my experience is not an uncommon one.

I totally get wanting a space just for lesbians, but it would be nice if the spaces that bi women are supposedly welcome didn't treat us with suspicion because we're in a relationship with a man.

I need to find the 'YES' emoji. I'll settle for a GIF!

Definitely but it's nice to 'meet' someone who 'gets' it. You're the first person I've come across since I left him almost 5 years ago.

@ADHDspoonie I know bisexual women have higher levels of violence fr9om male partners than straight women. I wonder if this comes from some of the kind of disgusting men attracted to bi women because of the stereotypes of being highly sexual and kinky.
That is disgusting and those men should be ostracised.

I know woken in same sex relationships get harassed if they are seen as a same sex couple in public. Disgusting, but still too common.

I would be suspicious of a bi women in a bar alone who had a male partner. I would assume she is on the look for a woman on the side or to join her and her male partner in bed. If it was a bi women at a LB sports club, knitting group or similar i would assume she just wanted to make friends. So context matters.

totally get wanting a space just for lesbians, but it would be nice if the spaces that bi women are supposedly welcome didn't treat us with suspicion because we're in a relationship with a man.
You're not a lesbian, you are in a relationship with a man, what do you want from lesbians, they don't owe you a community.

Apologies for not being clearer, I was talking support groups wise with the last paragraph. I stopped trying to go to them after a handful of times.

As a bi woman, when I have been single, I have been made very aware that some lesbians wouldn’t date me, which is totally fine, but as other people have said, sometimes there is visible revulsion at learning I’m bi. It’s fine to say not interested.

I would quite enjoy a B only group for women who have are in long term relationships with men for a sense of others understanding.

@ADHDspoonie what type of support groups?

A few years after I came out. I needed support processing what had happened with my family and just being comfortable still identifying as bi, I'm quite shy so wasn't as talkative to begin with but as I soon as I said that I'm bi the whole atmosphere shifted and I felt very, very unwelcome.

Edited* I was looking at this as group coming together setting up activities/events etc not support group which is a different dynamic do changing my post

Bisexual women face something called "unicorn hunting". It shouldn't have surprised me even slightly that lesbian couples face analogous behaviour from men. I mean, we are talking about men. When I was dating women, I experienced this "room for one more?" attitude too. 🤮 In hindsight, 🤦 it should have been obvious that Random Chancer Joe in the pub wouldn't have known that we were both bi and would do the exact same thing to lesbians as he was doing to us.

Do lesbians have a name for these men, other than “annoying"?

I am sorry you did not get the support you needed.
But generally support groups for LB women are for women coming out and being with other women, or leaving male partners for women. they probably assumed you were in that position and were surprised to find out you were not.

No name that I know of.

it would be nice if the spaces that bi women are supposedly welcome didn't treat us with suspicion because we're in a relationship with a man

The bold text is why this is a reasonable ask. Poster isn't asking to be accepted in explicitly lesbian-only spaces.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate The poster was in a support group. There are very few of these in existence, there was more at one time. These groups tend to be for women new to being with a woman whether they are lesbian or bi. It supporting the coming out process and dealing with any issues.

Been there, done that. I mentioned in an earlier post that I lived with someone once and it was a trainwreck? Yeah, that.

She probably wouldn't be welcome rocking up 11 years ago with her husband in tow, no.

She would be welcome now with her female partner.

In answer to to your last two questions, no and no.
Males shouldn't go to lesbian events
Females shouldn't go to lesbian events ( regardless of their sexually) , if they are currently In a committed relationship with a man.

How is this hard?

And lesbians can only date lesbians if they want to.

Yes the poster can ask but it is perfectly reasonable for a lesbian in a gay space to roll her eyes when she finds out she's talking to a Bi woman who's in a relationship with a man.