Positive aspects of trans?

[eatfigs]

Now that one of the most powerful men on the planet has put his weight behind ending the influence of gender identity ideological beliefs on American government policy, I think it's fair to assume this is the beginning of the end for trans activism, not just in the US but globally.

Maybe a eulogy is premature but it got me thinking about some of the arguably more positive aspects of trans that will be on the way out too.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

I also like how much of the original intent, back when trans was considered a manifestation of gender dysphoria, was to be accommodating to individuals with a medical condition that caused them significant distress. Like we make accommodations for many other vulnerable or marginalised groups.

Finally I appreciate how trans gives many people a sense of community in a world that in hostile to individuals who don't conform to society's expectations. Trans activism in particular gives them a purpose.

I still fundamentally disagree with their beliefs, and everything positive I mentioned above is sullied with all the harmful nonsense they layered on top of it. But I just wanted to give a thoughtful nod to the underdog on its way down.

I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

Totally disagree. They are literally saying that if you wear your hair long or wish to wear make-up you're a woman not a man, because men would never do that.
If the message was anyone can wear anything they want and that is fine and MEN can wear dresses and that DOESN'T mean they're a woman, that might be positive.

I think they are taking confused, lost children and medicalising them and sterilising them and making it so they can't back out and can't change their mind without losing their tribe. TRA's are vicious and I can't wait for the whole deluded mess of an ideology to just go away. There is nothing positive about it.

What? I mean WTF?

I could write an essay in response.

“Trans” as you put it is all about conformity, in a whole range of ways.

Not least trying to trans out the gay, and targeting children to achieve this.

it is far more complex than the above statement i have made, and your rather silly and fascicle statement.

previous generations challenged gendered roles like in the seventies and the eighties, men in dresses wearing make up and using women's spaces has done no such thing.

i hate this phrase go educate yourself but on this occasion …

What is your definition of "trans"?

You have it arse backwards, @eatfigs !

Second wave feminists say men can wear makeup and be feminine, women can be masculine and have buzz cuts. Those espousing a trans mantra say anyone in makeup and being feminine must be a woman, anyone butch with short hair must be a man.

Gender nonconformity is freedom. Trans ideology relies on gender stereotypes to exist.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt

But this is literally the opposite of what the trans movement thinks - look at Dylan Mulvaney as a famous example. He put on a dress not to be a non conforming man, but he is insisting that this makes him a woman. By the way most women wear trousers and a shirt, that’s hardly non conforming, and David Bowie for example wore dresses in the 70s without claiming he was changing sex. Gender bending clothing is not a new thing discovered by the recent gender ideology movement and no one has had a problem with people wearing whatever they want for decades now.

Agree with all the PP, you have it backwards about gender non conformity OP. Trans activists are against non conformity, they say if you don’t conform to your sex’s stereotype, then you must need to change to the opposite sex.

I agree with all your responses, I think maybe I didn't explain what I was thinking very well.

Like to use @OolongTeaDrinker's example, even though the trans activists believe a load of nonsense about Dylan Mulvaney being a woman because he says he's a woman, the reality is that's a male who isn't conforming with gender norms in how he presents himself, and that behaviour in itself is being accepted by them. That's the positive part, not all the crap about him having a "female gender identity" etc.

They're not accepting a man not conforming to gender norms. They're saying that by conforming to "female gender norms" he's now actually a woman

the reality is that's a male who isn't conforming with gender norms in how he presents himself, and that behaviour in itself is being accepted by them

”the reality” is exactly what they deny though. They don’t accept he’s male. They are not
accepting a non conforming male. They are only accepting and praising his behaviour because he and they say he is a woman

Maybe, maybe not. If tomorrow he accounced "actually I'm a man, I have a male gender identity" but that was all he changed, I think most trans believers would still be accepting of the fact he wears dresses etc.

@eatfigs

Or they might denounce him as a fake. I think that is more likely.

God no. He’d be kicked to the kerb as a traitor to the cause.

But aren't they actually saying the opposite- that if you wear a dress then you magically become a woman. So rather than saying that you can wear a dress as a man, they are refuting that and claiming the clothes actually change their sex.

The trans movement has if anything made it harder to be a man who doesn't conform to male stereotypes (as opposed to a TW), because anyone even slightly non-conforming is assumed to be trans and we're not allowed to assume anyone's gender (or 'observe their biological sex' as it's also known).

A eulogy is definitely premature, IMO.
And inappropriate. Nothing to praise about GII.

Sometimes being on FWR is like being trapped in Ground Hog Day.

Will we ever break the cycle.

I thought the thread was going to be about the positive aspects of trains. Which I love for a relaxing journey.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles.

I couldn’t disagree more. Their underlying message is to reinforce sex stereotypes. Perhaps I should correct that to say their overt message also reinforces sex stereotypes.

I have a problem with men wearing skirts because skirts and dresses are and always have been women's clothing. (I don't want to hear your arguments about national costumes!)
There are women and girls required to and forced to wear them today in this country.
But men are using them to play dress-up as their new edgy look - what fun eh?
Men like Harry Styles wearing a dress is breaking women's boundaries not mens. Would he be photographed half-nude in a burka? No he wouldn't dare!
It also makes me less safe because it fucks up my instinct as to who is male and female and I need that instinct to keep me safe.

I'm with most of the posters here. The TRAs think that unless you're Barbie you're not a real woman, they have captured and damaged so many vulnerable gay and autistic young people into their cult, they have bullied and brow beaten any woman who fails to be a sufficiently fervent ally - often ensuring she is thrown out of work and publicly reviled. They also aren't finished yet, either in the US or elsewhere in the world. These 'positives' are utterly deluded.

Such as, I like their underlying message of non-conformity with sex roles. Why shouldn't we all wear what we please, regardless of our sex? There's nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing trousers and a shirt.

Women have been wearing trousers and shirts for years, long before TRA. Its so common for men and women to wear certain clothes they have become unisex - hoodies and jeans for example.

But at the same time men haven't embraced traditional womens clothes. It could be they tend to be impractical, designed to show off womens bodies or that they want to keep womens clothes with sexual meaning for them? Men who wear womens clothes tend to do it as a statement so perhaps dont want it to become normal?

TRA has done nothing to change this. If anything they have made it more difficult to rebrand womens clothes as unisex.

I'm sorry and don't want to be mean but I don't think you thought the original post through at all.
I had a very knee jerk reaction to your first point. TRAs are the most rigid gender stereotype dependant people in existence. I seem to remember a story where one parent decided their infant was trans based on toys the child chose to play with as if the infant was trying to send a message instead of the infant didn't have the slightest clue about gender and was just playing with whatever toy caught their eye. Everyone else has addressed this point, but even after your answer I still don't think you understand hoiw badly you got this first point wrong.
If your first point did one good thing for you, it's getting a knee jerk reaction that stopped people reading the rest of your points.....

accommodating to individuals with a medical condition
There is no medical condition for trans, all the bodily tissue is healthy. It's not men with testicular cancer or women with breast cancer who are trans. It's all in the mind. The person believes they were born in the wrong body. That's not a medical condition. They want medical intervention to deal with their mental discongruity, but identifying as trans is not a medical condition. It is a mental issue that become medicalised.
trans gives many people a sense of community
Anything can gather people together in a sense of community. I'm sure terrorists, paedophiles, flat earthers, Nazis all feel a sense of community within their respective groups. In judging something as positive in creating a community perhaps it might be also worth considering the impact that community has on society as a whole.

The one thing I take from your OP as a whole is you've been mentally conditioned to accept any group that claims minority status and persecution on face value as having a place in the progressive stack without thinking too hard about why. Once it has been allocated a slot in the progressive stack, never question it, never re-evaluate it, never allow actual real life events to trigger a rethink about that protected elevated status and how it's playing out. Your post makes me think you think "yes they have caused harm as a community, but they are a minority and all are minorites good, so there must be some good about them".
I disagree with you on this.

I have no problem with trans or anyone wearing what they like, presenting how they like.

The problem is when they demand legal recognition of this as a new legal category that replaces sex.

I always compare it to religion. People can believe what they like but cannot impose it on anyone else.

It really is that simple.

I think I understand your good intention here Figs, but we are all so utterly opposed to this obnoxious ideology and gutted by the amount of time and effort we have had to spend fighting it that we would happily fire every trace of it into the nearest black hole to be crushed to oblivion in the singularity