Teen declared they were trans and now says they can't be in contact with us

[crochetedcat]

As the title says really, I'll try to keep this brief but obviously it's complicated.

DS went to university and within a few weeks of being there declared he was now trans and had a new name. We were all rather confused as this seemed out of the blue at 18. He is autistic but seemed happy and doing well, good course, plans for the future etc. I've kept using 'he' here for clarity.

We decided to jointly take the approach to be supportive and to focus on everything else, didn't question it, carried on as usual. I was very aware that challenging it would not go down well, especially when at uni with potentially lots of people saying how awful we were for asking any questions at all. So we decided to take the 'thanks for telling us dear, that's great, how's uni going' approach.

Tbh there was very little change apart from when they came home for a visit in November they were wearing a bit of make up and had made changes to voice and mannerisms. This was difficult to deal with as it felt like the concept of being female was being stereotyped but again, we didn't react and continued to support. He happily went back off to uni after a few days of seeing family etc.

Christmas was the same. He came home for a week but was fairly distant. But we continued being positive and asking about course, friends etc etc - everything you would usually do. No one questioned anything and just rolled with it. The key point here is we have all been as accepting as possible, no one has said anything even vaguely negative, lots of enthusiasm about uni and life more broadly.

Then early in the New Year, we got a message that we were all clearly embarrassed by him and there would be no more contact ever again. It felt ludicrous tbh. The day before we'd been chatting on WhatsApp about his course and something I'd been reading. I responded asking where this had come from, that we weren't embarrassed and would support him in whatever. He said ok and asked about the dog as she'd needed to go to the vet. A completely unemotional reaction really to having just declared he'd never see his family again.

However I haven't heard from him since. He ignores all messages including asking him if he's ok. This was nearly 3 weeks ago. He's not great at responding to messages but would usually do so in a day or two even if just an emoji.

I am guessing the accusations that we are unsupportive are about his anxieties. Or wanting the drama of no one supporting him. It feels very similar to 'the script' of the cheating husband where history is rewritten to fit the narrative.

I also assume the wanting to cut contact is due to him feeling uncomfortable in his 'old life' because it's confronting and now his new normal where probably everyone is effusive.

I would bet money on new friends / the internet driving this.

But it feels so unreal and I don't know what to do next. Is it serious? Is he just never going to have contact with us again? Do I just remain supportive and sending him photos of the dog and articles I see about climate science and including him on the family groups, he hasn't left those yet?

I'm of course angry that someone could just send a message like that to his mother with no feeling. And upset. And scared etc etc

And then there's the minor fact I'm financially supporting him through university. I'm paying for the phone contract for the phone he used to tell me he was never going to see me again. Is he assuming I'll carry on sending him £700 a month to cover his uni halls costs whilst he declares he's estranged?! It feels like a younger teen yelling that they hate you and then asking what's for dinner and can they have a lift to town.

At a loss really and not sure where to go from here to have the most sensible outcome.

Thank you.

The point of offering, was to show him acceptance. Many posters thought it was a bad idea and OP doesn't shop anyway, but it's one of those things where it's the thought that counts. He has distanced himself, so the business-as-usual approach didn't work, and I was trying to think of something that might demonstrate acceptance of his chosen identity.

Maybe OP could offer him some money for new clothes instead. This isn't about female stereotypes or practical considerations about where do you find such things for a large male, and he might not even want any new clothes. The whole point is to show willing. I know there's an argument that why should OP throw money at him when he's being so hurtful, but presumably she wants to try to mend things.

I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you, OP. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to think of anything that might help close this gap between you.

It's possible you might just have to wait for the distance he's put between you to pass. It doesn't sound as if you've done anything wrong, and I'm sure he still loves you. I'd be angry as well as hurt, in your shoes. Fine if he wants to change gender, but imo there's no reason or excuse to treat his mother like this. Mine is dead and I'd give anything to have her back. I can't believe some people treat their mums like this. 💖 He'll regret it one day, OP.

If he was anorexic would you suggest the OP offers money for lipo in order to “show willing”?

He is behaving in an unhealthy and dangerous way.

So the solution is to encourage his behaviour?!

Sorry but this is nuts.

Plenty of kids that age do reckless things, and parents actively have to step up at this point.

Be it dealing and taking drugs, being involved with the wrong crowd, reckless driving or other high risk behaviour. Cos actually to an extent that's what teenagers are programmed to do.

They are programmed to do stupid shit cos they haven't engaged their brains fully and don't understand consequences like they should and we expect.

And to an extent whilst parents are there to guide and be supportive, there is also this element where they have to let these kids make their own mistakes. It's a right of passage for every generation. Nothing a parent will do will stop a bunch of late teens trying to assert their own independent and natural separation processes from being little dickheads and getting into trouble.

A parents job remains to be the voice of sanity and stability. They are there to say 'when it all goes tits up, I'll still be here when your dickhead mates have all legged it and dropped you right in it'. I forgive you for your tatty behaviour and I'll pick up the pieces. But I'm not going to offer to give you a loan now so you can blow the lot on an ill advised venture.

Of course teens don't like it when you say no or voice caution when they are doing something fuckwitted. Just because they don't like it and start threatening you with alienation for not responding in the way they want doesn't mean you should then go 'oh no, I'm going to lose him, therefore I should encourage him to behave in a way that's harmful and puts his long term health and wellbeing at risk'. It doesn't matter what the fuck it is.

Parents are not there to be yes men. They are their to act in best interests even when teens are too busy with their head up their own arses to realise.

Good parenting is not being a yes man. It's making sure that an adult child knows that you won't go 'I told you so' but will recognise that you have to make your own way. You have to hope you equip them with the right tools to figure it all out in their own time and know that you'll be there when it really matters.

It boggles my mind that trans ideology encourages parents to lose their minds and pander to coercive and manipulative threats to estrange. That's not a healthy pattern of behaviour and it sets up teens to behave like that the rest of their lives. That's down right dangerous when it comes to relationships, regardless of sexuality. Domestic abuse starts with coercive and emotionally manipulative behaviour to get your own way.

In terms of comparisons with cults, you have to keep in mind you can't change someones mind. They are beyond reason. Deprogramming is about the equipping with critical thoughts. You ask questions in order to get them to ask questions to unlock their critical thoughts process again. You can't tell them they are wrong. They have to figure it out themselves and on average cult membership is about 7 years.

In terms of trans ideology I think a lot depends of the life cycle of the community bubble they are in. When that comes to its natural end (and internet and university bubbles are generally time limited) then the environment with supports that identity collapses. These communities are very much connected to life stages of those in it. I think theres a phrase about every new serious relationship you have means you shed a couple of friends. Not out of malice but because your life is moving on and you are in a different part of your life. The trouble with trans identities is they rely on the validation of the community and when that community crumbles it leaves people in a situation of isolation and potential crisis.

They suddenly realise that this validation is no longer there and they still have all the problems they had before transition. Why? Because the one person you cant run away from is yourself. You can ostracise family because they remind you of your past and the person you didn't like, but you still remember that no matter how much you try to suppress it and it always catches up with you. There's a process where you have to come to terms with yourself and give yourself some peace which I think kicks in as you get older. It's part of growing up. Validation and friends are not the same as your independent sense of self. Conflating the two leaves you vulnerable. You have to almost go 'its ok to be alone and it's ok to just be myself and be different without the need for approval from others'.

You only start to make meaningful relationships after this point. Because none of the bullshit of superficial appearances matters anymore.

Trans ideology really misses this point and tries to hold onto the fragility of superficiallity long after it's healthy or really sustainable.

It's best exemplified by the paradox of the 6'3" hairy large framed male never being able to pass if you will. It's the notion that if you demand others to ignore your sex, then you are never going to establish a healthy intimate relationship. Even if it's comes down to having an adult conversation about the 'how do we have/ not have children' question. Parents pretending this doesn't matter, do their kids a massive disservice.

We do not live in isolation. Nor do we live in a fantasy world. Just because you want something doesn't mean it should be facilitated and deemed 'unsupportive' if someone doesn't validate your choices in the way you wish. You are always going to come across people who behave in a way you don't want and anticipate. You can't control it.

And autism has this element of wanting the world to be predictable and for you to be in control. And the world just isn't like that. And this is a life lesson that every autistic person with that tendency ultimately has to learn to cope with, because Mummy and Daddy can't facilitate this not being true.

The parallel with anorexia is a good one for so many reasons (not least because there's increasing evidence that anorexia is a warning signal of autism in girls and it's not about food it's about an inner desire to control the world around you and it becomes fixated on food precisely because you can't control everything else).

Parents are not there to be your best friends. They are there to be your safety net when everything goes tits up. Parents who don't understand this, can very much be part of the problem...

Uhhhh, no, but he's not anorexic, is he? I'm not seeing any parallel between anorexia and being trans.

This is a fantastic post that should be pinned to the top of this site for parents.

Trans ideology is grounded in deskilling adults - and not just parents. In schools, the basic principles of working with mentally vulnerable children (eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation etc) are abandoned when children have been gaslit to believe their sex is wrong. Social Services, the NSPCC, the NHS have all abandoned their duty of care, to do no harm, to safeguard children from age inappropriate dangers.
Instead they've allowed the niche demands of the toxic trans lobby groups to be centred - affirming mentally unwell children, abandoning safeguarding and openly working to undermine parental rights / responsibilities. It has to stop.

Both are harmful to your physical and mental health.

They're both about believing that their bodies are wrong - a mental illness. Nobody affirms anorexics and agrees that they're overweight. Those with eating disorders are carefully supported to understand that this is a mental illness and that eating sufficient is vital for health and life.
In the same way a child / young adult erroneously believing that his male body is really female and seeking the affirmation that his belief is correct is subject to significant psychological harm when the trusted adults around him agree with his delusion, rather than helping him accept the reality of his sexed body and focus on supporting him develop a mentally healthy approach to himself.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

Brilliant post @RedToothBrush

For trans people, NOT transitioning is very harmful to their mental health.

If being trans is a mental illness, how do you explain people who transitioned and are much happier living as the sex they identify with than the one they were assigned at birth?

Says fucking who?!

This is NOT what's starting to emerge in the actual research.

The actual research - which hasn't got much in the way of long term stuff - say that overall in general terms there's no net benefit. On an individual level some experience a benefit but for everyone who does there's someone who does. And those who do experience a benefit still often have to deal with life changing side effects. Which casts doubt on the long term benefit of transition anyway.

The research done covers mainly boys too. Not girls. And it's suspected due to side effects that benefits are likely to be lesser.

This is in the Cass Review. Which also pointed out how there was deliberate obstruction over evidence gathering on this.

The worst thing is, this euphoria at transitioning could well be a placebo too - there's a noted pattern of it wearing out and there's no way to eliminate the placebo effect from these studies because of the nature of transition. We also have not seen a study which compares psychological intervention versus physical medication to see which has better outcomes - which will include less young adults having negative effects, as well as just looking at the number who feel better.

And don't get me started on the lack of research on detransition due to it being an inconvenient truth that no one wanted to bloody acknowledge at all!

Spouting off that transition is better for mental health, is this generation's homeopathy. Except lots of kids and young adults even up with irreversible harm.

It's gross and it's misleading.

Just because a middle aged male transitioner is happy that he can wear dresses, that unconsenting women are forced to share changing rooms with him, that his coworkers are compelled to call him "she" despite the reality of what they see in front of them, doesn't mean that parents and responsible adults should abandon their responsibility to safeguard children from the belief that their bodies are wrong but a sex change will cure them.

This thread is about a young man at university - so still mentally and physically developing. What did you think of the article I linked by a clinical psychologist who works with young people? This extract seems pertinent

"Agreeing with young people that they were born in the wrong body and organising their life around that belief is not a low risk thing to do. It’s a serious psychological intervention based on denial and avoidance. Believing their happiness is conditional on denying reality puts young people in a fragile state, dependent on the pretence of others for their psychological wellbeing. Affirmation feels like such a relief, but it’s a seductive illusion.".

Red Tooth brush great post. Can really relate as recently we have had to be the bad cops to our teen (not trans related eating related).

It would have been far easier to be sappy nice and let her continue with potentially harmful behaviour but we have had to act robustly. She’s recently thanked us and said she had got into bad habits of not eating enough but she is now.

@ChicLilacSeal I can't tell whether you're genuinely making suggestions from misplaced 'kindness' or a TRA who's slightly more able than the usual crowd at this stage.

May I suggest - if you haven't already - going back to Red's post at 4.35 and reading in detail. It's a brilliant summary of the harm, psychological and physical, of kindly mindless affirmation vs being the kind of parent who wants to raise healthy, functional adults rather than cosseted lifelong medical patients with the mentality of toddlers when it comes to getting their own way.

Seriously?

For trans people, NOT transitioning is very harmful to their mental health.

It's not possible to change sex. And not everyone is going to validate your new "identity". It's setting young people up to fail.

See my post above.

There the placebo effect and there's the sunk costs issue. To invest that much emotionally you have to believe it's better or you face a crisis point when you realise it's not made things better. We are seeing evidence of that unfortunately.

Those who transition continue to need validation. And if they continue to make demands or their support bubble dissipates they withdraw to community bubbles of ever increasing battshittery to try and maintain it. That's why we see such extreme behaviour manifesting when anyone even suggests research to investigate the reality. That's not normal - if you think the treatment has worked, you'd be keen to help demonstrate that. Again much to suggest this pattern of control and ever increasing extreme behaviour is happening too.

Its hardly healthy or a sign of good mental health to shout things like 'die in a fire' or send death threats to people who seek to explore and develop better research in this area, now is it?! Even if they say they are happier, this response isn't consistent and frankly should be being explored too. The self reporting is missing something in this context.

Indeed if you ask a member of a cult, are they happy, they generally will reply - and mean it - that they are, even when not. And the risk here is we see the same problem because there is social and self pressure to have made 'the right decisions'.

I note the element of validation of authenticity that walks hand in hand here. Those who are seen to suffer more by the community get 'more likes' and a higher status than those who have completely supportive parents etc etc. And there's almost a competitive angle to this. It's like goths going who can be the most miserable and then getting the most attention for it, which makes them feel good. But this isn't about the transition - this is about social acceptance in your little community bubble. And that's why they spiral.

There's a regular poster here that comes along and say how great life is whilst simultaneously saying how dreadful it is and how bad the side effects are. It's quite the eye-opener. The cognitive dissonance is alarming.

So yes I genuinely believe that there's a group that psychologically cling to the idea that things are better because the alternative that they made a mistake is one so terrible.

Also see Susie Green as a reference point for a parent doing similar.

So yes I genuinely believe that there's a group that psychologically cling to the idea that things are better because the alternative that they made a mistake is one so terrible.

This.

Thank you

So much this. It feels completely against my parenting style not to point out the issues and impacts with what he’s doing. For anything else I’d be trying to chat things through, especially given he’s autistic and doesn’t often immediately understand the reactions / intent of others.

I was looking for the Blaire White and Buck Angel video "trans kids" but can't find it. In that video they both talk about it being a mental illness and children being pulled towards transition when other mental health issues are being missed.

I haven't watched the video below but the title of it suggests that there may be a similar clarity of explanation. Equally, even though Blaire also openly says "I'm a man" (and is open about still having a penis), it's fair to assume that there will also be parts of this video that don't feel quite right to many people - I'm aware Blaire uses female toilets/changing rooms, which I fully disagree with:

I expect that to most people Blaire "passes" visually when in still photos and in videos like this, although not so much when walking - but obviously passing shouldn't come into it when legislating on single sex spaces, as that's completely impossible to account for in law. Plus, even if some criteria could be drawn up (I have no idea how), it's completely subjective according to each individual observer anyway. I have a female family member who had a long conversation with someone who (to me) was very obviously male, yet my family member said "you wouldn't have known until she [sic] told me". Having seen photos, I replied that I would have done. For context, this person transitioned at ~60 and wears a wig. My family member was in her late 70s at the time and was either saying it to be kind or genuinely didn't know.

So much this. It feels completely against my parenting style not to point out the issues and impacts with what he’s doing. For anything else I’d be trying to chat things through, especially given he’s autistic and doesn’t often immediately understand the reactions / intent of others.

Trans stuff aside, is he normally quite receptive to these suggestions and sees that you have a point? Or is there any pushback?

The other point is that one of the key points of research isn't just to look at benefits it's also to look at harms.

If in your study, 50% report being better off you discontinue the availability of treatment if the cost of improving things comes at the expense of the other 50% who report being much worse off and have life long issues to contend with as a result of the treatment.

You only resume the study (not universal availability of the treatment) when you have identified why that 50% have responded to the treatment and why the other 50% have suffered.

Why? Because of the principle of do no harm. You can't just plough on with a high rate of collateral damage.

This is why we don't have screening programmes for all sorts of things, because the false positive rate is too high.

This is standard accepted medical practice.

Yet when it comes to trans ideology this all goes out the bloody window, and there are deliberate attempts to make even the topic of detransition off limits. Those who detransition aren't just invisible. They are ostracised, shunned and abused for telling their lived experience because it's an inconvenient truth.

That's not healthy or normal. Their treatment echoes that of cults.

Everything surrounding trans ideology throws normal accepted principles of safeguarding and ethics out the window.

Until this changes I am not going to give any of it the time of day, precisely because of those behaviour patterns.

This needs to be dealt with within a framework of safety, good patterns of behaviour and understanding of warning signs and what they might mean.

IF then it starts to look like you can identify a small number of people who aren't threatening everyone for merely disagreeing or being concerned about medical practice and they demonstrate a willingness to engage with reality and the side effects aren't as horrendous as current data seems to suggest, then I'm actually open to changing my mind.

In this culture. No. And the only ones responsible for this environment are those doing the threatening.

Fully agree that RedToothbrush's post is fantastic. Your addition brings an extra perspective on how parents have been pulled into it all too. Yes, parents need to "step up" but it can never be overstated just how much institutional capture is funnelling parents down the route that a) the only way to support your child is to affirm (and there is a risk of suicide otherwise) and b) anything else is abusive. It's unsurprising that there are so many ordinary, loving parents who believe that they are following advice from trusted institutions that will benefit their child.

Edited to add that your post at 15.43 yesterday was 🎯, MrsO

💐