Teen declared they were trans and now says they can't be in contact with us

[crochetedcat]

As the title says really, I'll try to keep this brief but obviously it's complicated.

DS went to university and within a few weeks of being there declared he was now trans and had a new name. We were all rather confused as this seemed out of the blue at 18. He is autistic but seemed happy and doing well, good course, plans for the future etc. I've kept using 'he' here for clarity.

We decided to jointly take the approach to be supportive and to focus on everything else, didn't question it, carried on as usual. I was very aware that challenging it would not go down well, especially when at uni with potentially lots of people saying how awful we were for asking any questions at all. So we decided to take the 'thanks for telling us dear, that's great, how's uni going' approach.

Tbh there was very little change apart from when they came home for a visit in November they were wearing a bit of make up and had made changes to voice and mannerisms. This was difficult to deal with as it felt like the concept of being female was being stereotyped but again, we didn't react and continued to support. He happily went back off to uni after a few days of seeing family etc.

Christmas was the same. He came home for a week but was fairly distant. But we continued being positive and asking about course, friends etc etc - everything you would usually do. No one questioned anything and just rolled with it. The key point here is we have all been as accepting as possible, no one has said anything even vaguely negative, lots of enthusiasm about uni and life more broadly.

Then early in the New Year, we got a message that we were all clearly embarrassed by him and there would be no more contact ever again. It felt ludicrous tbh. The day before we'd been chatting on WhatsApp about his course and something I'd been reading. I responded asking where this had come from, that we weren't embarrassed and would support him in whatever. He said ok and asked about the dog as she'd needed to go to the vet. A completely unemotional reaction really to having just declared he'd never see his family again.

However I haven't heard from him since. He ignores all messages including asking him if he's ok. This was nearly 3 weeks ago. He's not great at responding to messages but would usually do so in a day or two even if just an emoji.

I am guessing the accusations that we are unsupportive are about his anxieties. Or wanting the drama of no one supporting him. It feels very similar to 'the script' of the cheating husband where history is rewritten to fit the narrative.

I also assume the wanting to cut contact is due to him feeling uncomfortable in his 'old life' because it's confronting and now his new normal where probably everyone is effusive.

I would bet money on new friends / the internet driving this.

But it feels so unreal and I don't know what to do next. Is it serious? Is he just never going to have contact with us again? Do I just remain supportive and sending him photos of the dog and articles I see about climate science and including him on the family groups, he hasn't left those yet?

I'm of course angry that someone could just send a message like that to his mother with no feeling. And upset. And scared etc etc

And then there's the minor fact I'm financially supporting him through university. I'm paying for the phone contract for the phone he used to tell me he was never going to see me again. Is he assuming I'll carry on sending him £700 a month to cover his uni halls costs whilst he declares he's estranged?! It feels like a younger teen yelling that they hate you and then asking what's for dinner and can they have a lift to town.

At a loss really and not sure where to go from here to have the most sensible outcome.

Thank you.

It's rather like those experiments where people will electrocute others because they are told to though.

We know this is what humans do.

The whole 'I was just following orders' mentality.

It's funny that opposition has arisen most in the country that encourages it's army to think critically and culturally does not encourage blind following of orders. Something we take for granted as best practice but isn't the same everywhere (indeed the US army has called in the British on numerous occasions because they realise the value of this trait).

Culturally we are more likely to act independently and think critically than some others and we've still been vulnerable to the ideology.

But it comes as no surprise either that we've really been the ones asking the right questions over this (rather than as in the US where a lot has been a head on clash between competing ideologies which makes the nature of debate about belief rather than grounded in science and know accepted best practice).

It demonstrates a need for parents to always ask questions - but this failure now also represents a loss of trust in authority which has significant knock on implications.

It's really a massive scandal on a level that can't be understated.

I quickly realised that the organisation is partisan and has an agenda - that is, it's anti-trans - so I didn't see it as a trustworthy source of unbiased information.

I quickly realised that the organisation is partisan and has an agenda - that is, it's anti-trans - so I didn't see it as a trustworthy source of unbiased information.

You clearly have an agenda as well.

Yup. I wondered above whether this is genuine misplaced kindness or a TRA slightly better than usual at doing the ingenuous schtick.

Now we have the answer.

And there it is - "anti trans" 😂
So you didn't read a post on a site for parents by a clinical psychologist about teenagers. In that, you encapsulate the problem that RedToothBrush articulated upthread at 9.00. Extract in case you also skimmed over her wise words:

"Everything surrounding trans ideology throws normal accepted principles of safeguarding and ethics out the window.
Until this changes I am not going to give any of it the time of day, precisely because of those behaviour patterns.
This needs to be dealt with within a framework of safety, good patterns of behaviour and understanding of warning signs and what they might mean".

I'm not sure what you mean about "slightly more able than the usual crowd at this stage" - what stage?

I read the post you mean, and I don't agree with it. I think the poster who wrote it, like many on MN, just doesn't believe that being trans is real but is a mental illness that needs to be recovered from. I do think that being trans is real, as is shown by the many people who transition and live much happier than they did before, for the rest of their lives. We have seen this; being trans isn't new. I grew up in Brighton, and there were trans people around when I was a child 40 years ago.

I do think that some people who want to transition might be misguided and suffering from something, and looking for an escape, but that's why careful counselling of people who want to change sex is needed. And nothing should be done in a rush. But I cannot agree with the attitude on here that being trans is nothing more than either a mental illness, or, in the young, a whim that shouldn't be tolerated. I have seen and known trans people from years ago. Changing sex and then living happily ever after as that new sex, and much happier than before, is true and real and possible.

I'm not a TRA; I think everyone's rights should be protected. Trans people should have the right to live and work in peace and not experience judgement and discrimination, but I don't think that people born male should compete in women's sports, because it isn't fair, and I don't think self-ID is OK when it comes to changing rooms and prisons.

The unbiased response would be one talking about expanding research and being fully aware of what the Cass Review says - and WHY it says what it does.

As in why have safeguarding frameworks and ethical practice been removed around trans health care? And by whom have they been removed? And who has been most vocal about removing them?

Its a very curious thing to note the number of middle aged male transitioners so keen to support teenage (or younger) female transitioners - using dubious research done primarily on males - as their biggest tool.

This is happening at a time when there is increased recognition of the phenomenon of 'the invisibility of women' full stop.

And the response is NOT to work on and encourage more research. Its to attack and smear women asking legitimate questions about what the health and experiences of middle ages men has to do with the health and experiences of teenage girls. Its to ignore anything remotely connected autism and why this might be a relevant factor.

Instead its control, control, control.

None of this is normal.

Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Having caught up on some excellent posts in the thread, I wanted to circle back on the victim/perpetrator line when it comes to young males with autism.

I don't want another generation of autistic kids to be swept up in this. Radicalised and brainwashed in schools to believe that their only chance of happiness is cross sex hormones. The ideology is pernicious. Some of the cheerleaders and bad actors are pernicious.
And a great many of the kids are just victims.

Italics are mine. Yes, when they are young they are just victims. And autism adds a significant extra factor in this, particularly so when you consider MrsO's points about institutional capture and the safeguarding failures that are letting these children down. But somewhere along the line many (most?) become victims and perpetrators. I have no doubt that there will be some who don't cross the line into using female spaces - STILLTish writes really well on this on Twitter about her own son. These children and young adults are being failed by professionals who should have helped them and as a result, many are becoming a societal problem.

And the only way to help those victims is to stop pretending they are anything other than their sex.

Italics are mine. Unfortunately it's nowhere near that simple. It starts from this point, from the recognition that social transition is not a neutral act, but there is way more that's needed to help these victims. It's difficult enough when we're talking about children my daughter's age but this level of difficulty ramps up significantly when a child/young adult shows an ROGD-type profile for the first time at an older age - like the OP's. I agree that...

Deradicalising kids who have been brainwashed is much harder. You have to start where they are and move in small steps to a different viewpoint. Add in the fact that professional support that can actually do this and isn't just going to affirm and prescribe hormones is very hard indeed to find, and that these are adults so as the parent you have zero veto rights, and it's just incredibly difficult.

Irrespective of the societal risk regarding males in women's spaces etc, I should imagine that most parents empathise with this:

Now I just want to hold my kid steady and hope that nothing irreversible takes place, while accepting that as a theoretical adult, there's fuck all I can do about preventing it.

And from a different perspective...

Its fascinating to watch in real time, people who don't want to see something from someone else's point of view even well they've spelt it out in detail because they are too busy projecting their own ideas and experience onto everyone else to pay attention.

This isn't how I'm reading the contributions.... Yes, the crux of the thread is about a No Contact situation. No, that particular PP's adult child has not gone NC - that poster is lucky, whilst also being in a shit and difficult situation. My daughter was 13 when this started and I'm also lucky - in the NC context, and in the fact that she is hopefully on a pathway out of the impact of her autism-related puberty distress being conflated with gender identity by professionals. Many such professionals genuinely believe they are doing the right thing by supporting the idea that it's possible to be "born in the wrong body". I'm seeing this poster's contributions as sharing an experience not projecting. I'm also lucky that I had time to learn and try out different ways of talking to my daughter (some didn't go well). The OP hasn't had this opportunity as it's a done deal and already an NC situation.
Whilst I do agree that the line between victim and abuser is complex, and that it's possible to be both, there's a whole generation of vulnerable children and young adults who have been radicalised. IMO, we need some guidance from the EHRC that is similar to the clarity in new EO that the White House has just issued on "DEFENDING WOMEN FROM GENDER IDEOLOGY EXTREMISM AND RESTORING BIOLOGICAL TRUTH TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT", to fully remove the presentation of gender identity belief as fact in schools, hospitals, laws etc.
We already have the Nolan Principles which govern the same key points that are raised in the EO about the promotion of belief by public institutions. We need to make use of our existing laws. I asked Sarah Phillimore on X whether it was unlawful for schools to promote it (e.g. pronoun posters on walls, teachers sharing preferred pronouns in email signatures with students) and her very barrister-like reply was that she wasn't sure and it needed testing in court.

I've done my bird watching my father doing the cat walk. I protected my children from him but I doubt he would of dressed up in front of my partner. My mental health was not considered when I was a child and I didn't want the same for my children.... I am now at peace with my past he's dead and how I felt went with him.

💐 This is an example of the reality of an abuser's impact on others. No child should be left in this situation but unfortunately there are plenty of children who have been drawn in to this kind of world, championed by the Be Kind movement. There are men who are selfishly acting out a fetish. Dr Az Hakeem is interesting to listen to on this subject as he has a sympathetic take on what may have got them into the need to act out their fantasy, whilst also being clear that they are a major societal problem (well, mostly clear .. in one video he seemed to suggest Jan Morris was a sweet old soul... reading Jan's daughter's experience suggests otherwise).

But when you're the parent of a young, autistic male who you can see is going down a pathway that is linked first and foremost to their autism, that's a completely different situation.
This blog from a self-confessed autogynophilic man (he calls himself a man in the blog) is an interesting insight. It doesn't cover the autism angle but it is a brutally honest breakdown, from a personal perspective, of the societal risk associated with biological males being allowed to identify into women's spsces:

https://archive.is/2pQIq

Seriously. Many trans people live as the opposite sex and then live much happier afterwards.

Anorexia is seriously life-threatening and easily ends up in death if it's not treated and it progresses.

The only parallel I see is the psychological distress caused by someone who is forced to live as the wrong sex.

Hard disagree. The absolute best thing for their physical and mental health would be to find a way of accepting their biological sex.

As per the prayer for serenity, "help me to accept the things I can't change". You can't change your sex.

Why do suicide rates actually increase post transition then?

OK. So you won't read a link by a clinical psychologist because you think Transgender Trend is "anti trans" So what is it you don't agree with that RTB said about parenting:
Was it that she said that teenagers "are programmed to do stupid shit cos they haven't engaged their brains fully and don't understand consequences like they should and we expect.
And to an extent whilst parents are there to guide and be supportive, there is also this element where they have to let these kids make their own mistakes. It's a right of passage for every generation. Nothing a parent will do will stop a bunch of late teens trying to assert their own independent and natural separation processes from being little dickheads and getting into trouble.
A parents job remains to be the voice of sanity and stability. They are there to say 'when it all goes tits up, I'll still be here when your dickhead mates have all legged it and dropped you right in it'. I forgive you for your tatty behaviour and I'll pick up the pieces. But I'm not going to offer to give you a loan now so you can blow the lot on an ill advised venture"

Or maybe :
"Parents are not there to be yes men. They are their to act in best interests even when teens are too busy with their head up their own arses to realise.
Good parenting is not being a yes man. It's making sure that an adult child knows that you won't go 'I told you so' but will recognise that you have to make your own way. You have to hope you equip them with the right tools to figure it all out in their own time and know that you'll be there when it really matters"

Or perhaps:
It boggles my mind that trans ideology encourages parents to lose their minds and pander to coercive and manipulative threats to estrange. That's not a healthy pattern of behaviour and it sets up teens to behave like that the rest of their lives. That's down right dangerous when it comes to relationships, regardless of sexuality. Domestic abuse starts with coercive and emotionally manipulative behaviour to get your own way.

Or maybe:

"Parents are not there to be your best friends. They are there to be your safety net when everything goes tits up. Parents who don't understand this, can very much be part of the problem..."

Or something else?

Hello I'm here. You can engage with me and my points if you like, rather than putting 'the person who wrote that'.

Which points do you take issue with?

Whats your counter argument apart from 'I believe'.

Would you like to comment on why we are seeing so many unhealthy patterns of behaviour, and how we deal with them without it harming others in the fall out zone.

And yes, there is a psychological harm here being done to family that no fucker who is advocating this is willing to acknowledge. They don't want to address the point that identity is NOT an individual thing, but a multi layered thing that is not restricted to an individual but is often a shared collective thing so injury to this has a collective impact.

Interestingly I believe that family councilling is a feature of the treatment of anoerxics and that the feelings of all parties, are listened to and dealt with, not just the one who is suffering from the condition, because its recognised that there is significant impact to the family unit.

Instead family members are TOLD they MUST affirm and they must tolerate all behaviour because its excused by the 'most vulnerable people in the history of the universe' narrative. Thus opening them up to abusive or manipulative behaviour they can not question or challenge. Otherwise that person will die. Its always the fault of the family and the transperson is NEVER in the wrong.

As we can see in this thread, the reality is different. So many parents are actively vilified DESPITE being supportive. Because of this dynamic, which was being promoted by trans advocacy groups themselves, where trans people disengage from family themselves not because the family have done something wrong, but because family are a reminder of their former selves and that hurts.

In what way EXACTLY is this not a psychological response? How is this response which WAS acknowledged by trans advocacy groups NOT mental health related?

Why has this been dropped by these groups and why have families now been put into this position of perpetual guilt and being shamed as 'not doing enough' or 'not being supportive enough' regardless of everything they do?

I mean. Really?

I'm just waiting for the 'its just like being gay' bingo card to be pulled out, despite all the explainations already given on this thread about why its nothing like that.

Unfortunately the counselling service will affirm that he's a woman and you're evil (I'm a lecturer).

I would actually suggest you contact the estranged students office but they may also take the line that he's a woman and you're evil.

But he may meet some students who are genuinely estranged and hear their stories. Some are harrowing.

This is a bit left field, but you may be able to find a gender critical lecturer at the university to support you. I would do this for a parent. They may know who's friendly in the student's department, who actually knows about autism, and how to push for the counselling service to offer non affirming therapy. As a body, gender critical academics are pushing for more reasonable trans policies, including support for children of trans parents and non affirming counselling.

I agree with everything you wrote, Red toothbrush

If the frameworks existed my young person would not have been taught the "genderbread person" at school, wouldn't have found something that resonated within his young autistic brain, wouldn't have gone on to investigate trans groups on Reddit, etc, and we wouldn't be where we are, and that would be so much better.

However there needs to be compassion for the young person and the parents in the formulation. As I have repeatedly said on this thread, not every young man expressing a trans identity is doing it in order to trample women's boundaries or because they are misogynists or abusers. Many are just lost. I want to change some of the narrative about the nature of these kids, because there is a demonisation of the MTF cohort that for some reason doesn't happen as much with the FTM cohort, even though the profile - autistic, searching to belong, vulnerable - is the same.

…But I cannot agree with the attitude on here that being trans is nothing more than either a mental illness, or, in the young, a whim that shouldn't be tolerated. I have seen and known trans people from years ago. Changing sex and then living happily ever after as that new sex, and much happier than before, is true and real and possible….

No human has ever changed sex so it is absolutely not ‘true and real and possible’
It can only be something that they believe about themselves without physical proof it can only be a mental thing.

OP, since your son is currently saying that he's trans, and since he's distanced himself, I really don't think there's anything you can actually do right now except be supportive as best you can from a distance. I think it's the kind of scenario that only the passing of time will resolve. It might turn out that something else is afoot, like mental illness, or an escape from his experience of the world as a person living with autism, or peer pressure, or depression, or any number of things. On the other hand, he might still be telling you he's trans when he's 30 and that he's much happier as a woman, and he might feel stable and settled that way. But I think that only time will reveal what's really going on.

Whenever I have been faced with a heartache about which I can do absolutely nothing and which is not within my control whatsoever, yet which affects me deeply, I have found that times of distraction help greatly in switching my brain off from said heartache. When I was grieving for my mother, and then for my marriage after my husband ended it, and then grieving for my father - and both of my parents had long illnesses - I got through it by sometimes watching something funny and giving my brain a break from being in a situation that I desperately wanted to be different, but which I had no power to make it so. I also find that during life's hardest times, staying busy really helps.

Hugs 💐

I mean, change as far as possible, whether that means simply dressing and living as the opposite sex (I think that might be called social transition) or having physical treatment too. Obviously one can never completely change sex.

The model of isolationism and oppression is part of the problem.

If there were an acknowledge that trans people really needed support, then there would be this recognition and effort to support the family unit as a whole and to PREVENT family alienation rather than merely accepting it as something of an inevitability.

The fact that its taken as read that trans people are being cast out by families is alarming.

Is no one paying attention?!

If you sat a family down and tried to improve communication issues - and explained to autistic young people - that the motivations of their parents are not about 'none acceptance' but about caring and 'best interests' we'd perhaps have a different set of outcomes.

But no. The emphasis is purely about trying to drive wedges.

Again there is understanding of this in other circumstances. So why not this?

Unless the intention is precisely to enable isolating an individual from their family and to then become their 'glitter family'? Which we know is a dangerous pattern and one which leaves vulnerable adults even more vulnerable.

Instead all we get is 'well its not a mental health issue' and 'you are just bigoted'.

Honest to god, its wilful blindness.

• I cannot agree with the attitude on here that being trans is nothing more than either a mental illness, or, in the young, a whim that shouldn't be tolerated. I have seen and known trans people from years ago. Changing sex and then living happily ever after as that new sex, and much happier than before, is true and real and possible.

I'm not a TRA; I think everyone's rights should be protected. Trans people should have the right to live and work in peace and not experience judgement and discrimination, but I don't think that people born male should compete in sports, because it isn't fair, and I don't think self-ID is OK when it comes to changing rooms and prisons.*

The 'trans umbrella' houses a wide range of people, and if we focus on the gender non conformity aspect, there are wide ranging factors underpinning it.

I haven't come across posters on this board who think trans people don't exist. I'd also say that the majority also want everyone to live and work in peace and not experience judgement or discrimination for behaviours, beliefs and attitudes that do not harm others.

In addition to the point raised (above) about single sex spaces, posters object to the expectation (demand) for others to affirm (whether they believe it or not) that sex is an identity and self determined, and/or that sex should be ignored.

This authoritarian and illiberal approach to managing difference is at the heart of this thread. It is very damaging to vulnerable people with trans identities as it alienates them from support networks that can/would reduce their vulnerability and distress.

As is often pointed out on this thread, promoting the belief gender critical views are harmful to people with trans identities is cruel and damaging. Stating that the evidence of this harm comes directly from the experience of trans people, overlooks the foundation of how narratives and meaning is created.

Oh so after the accusation of agenda and TRA advocate, you FINALLY, get around to offering sympathy.

Jesus. Its so bloody glaringly transparent.

Sorry, it's 5 am where I am. I couldn't remember who wrote what. I'm going to get some sleep now. I don't really have time to engage on the level you ask, and I'm not well-versed in all the issues as you are, I just think that some trans people are genuinely so, and anyone feeling that they might be trans is almost certainly suffering from some distress, so they should be handled with care, and being trans shouldn't be automatically dismissed because I do think, in many cases, it's real, and not the result of mental illness. Growing up in Brighton, I have seen and known trans people live stable, happy lives as their chosen sex, and that's what I'm basing my opinion on.

I am in a similar situation with a GC, so I do understand what a delicate tightrope it is to walk.

I suspect that your child's discomfort lies on the fact that you were accepting, but not overtly supportive and affirming, which is what they were hoping for. I know exactly why you responded as you did and fully understand that. But they have taken what they regard as a massive and fundamental life decision which must leave them feeling vulnerable; and in their eyes nothing but total affirmation from family and friends will do.

Perhaps write to them saying where you stand and starting with the fact that you love them - and repeating that throughout. Tell them it is something that it is very hard for you to get your head round, and that they are mature enough to understand that. That you gave birth to them as one person and now have to try and understand what is going on and take on their new reality. That cutting off contact is not the way forward. Ask them to be precise about what it is they need from you. It is no good them accusing you of not doing it right if they cannot tell you what "right" looks like.

It is very hard for parents in this situation who recognise that their child is going through something very profound, but who also want to leave open the door for a change of heart without shame if it proves that this is something that is not permanent - if it is influenced by friends and media and their reasons for espousing this are to do with insecurity and a need for a tribe rather than something more fundamental.

I have an excellent relationship with my GC who is in this situation and. like you, I have not gone into it in any details with them. I interact with them as with anyone else - I use their new name and preferred pronoun, but have simply said that I love them dearly but I am getting on a bit and will get things wrong sometimes!

Their parents have been more pro-actively supportive (facilitating professional appointments, taking to Pride march etc.) whilst always being honest, e.g. about longed-for surgery and their opposition to that.

Your child's toys-out-of-the-pram response in wanting to cut contact (whilst still expecting your financial support) is very immature and evidence of their need for some proper counselling. Can you talk to their uni about this? - tell them of your concerns?

It is very hard indeed to get it right in this situation and we can all only do our very best - but it does feel a bit like groping in the dark. The message that you love them needs to be the one that gets across - that you do not have to fully understand it all to still love them.

Both involve delusions about physical reality (except that one involves thinking wrongly that one is too fat, which is physically possible, and the other that one is of the opposite sex, which is impossible).
Both involve harmful practices that are encouraged by others, whether in person or online, a form of social contagion.
Both are associated with other conditions that affect one’s perception of oneself, a desire for control and obsessive thoughts, though in one case this Is generally recognised and in the other it has been (perhaps deliberately) ignored.
Both destroy relationships with family and friends, impact education and have life long implications for health, including fertility, except that in the one case it is the illness that may cause the effect on fertility, and in the other it is the treatment.

Many anorexics recover to at least some degree - some will always have to be vigilant - and are able to live happy and fulfilling lives, which may or may not include having children.
There is no evidence that transitioned people are happier, in fact the sparse evidence we have seems to show that they are less so. If they have been medicated or surgically altered, they may not be able to have children, whether they would like to or not.

The parallels are clear, though naturally there are some differences, the most glaring of which is that anorexia is seen by society as damaging and undesirable, and discouraged, whereas the delusion of transgenderism has been encouraged and promoted by many who should know better, and who are only now becoming aware of the terrible consequences of their stupidity.

My problem centres around the idea that people who are gender critical HATE or want to do harm to trans people.

The reality is that virtually everyone who posts on these thread on MN has HUGE concerns about the well being of trans people and feel that they have been sold a lie which is the thing thats harming them.

We hate the ideology and the way in which it stops us protecting vulnerable people. We don't want to see ANYONE harmed. Including those who declare themselves as trans.

Restore these frameworks of protection for all concerned and these threads would evapourate.

Its this paradox of loving someone, but not necessarily liking them because of toxic behaviour patterns, which parents are at the real sharp end of.

The problem is set by those who make it adversial and promote the idea that anyone who raises a question is an evil bigot rather than a concerned relative who can see a whole load of other unaddressed issues being neglected and actively being amplified by the affirmation only approach.