Page 19 | I think the spell is finally broken...

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 17:31

TempestTost · 21/01/2025 22:40

You also have to remember that many Americans see the state as being much more important in terms of the law, and will think the state is the proper level for that kind of thing. Much like many people in Europe would think this is a matter for national rather than pan-European decision making.

There are a lot of Americans who see states rights as fundamental.

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We do the same here. Northern Irish law is not the same as Scots law, which is not the same as English law, which isn't always the same as Welsh law.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 17:37

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/01/2025 23:17

Now wouldn't that be a thing. Banned from cross sex provisions, the trans and trans ally community regroup and start creating a grass roots whole new cultural phenomenon of agender spaces with two teeny single sex cubicles and a great big mixed sex palace as a Fuck You to the conservative right. New fashions, music genres and art arise out of it. Shocking at first, then edgy, then trendy, then beloved.

In twenty years time the dominant culture is agender and the trad sex roles and heteronormativity that Trump's supporters hoped to re-establish have all long gone. Cultural historians highlight the irony that by preventing gender non conforming people from simply appropriating the existing opposite sex provisions and legal rights, Trump actually triggered a whole new gender nonconforming energy and creativity that burst into sonething brand new.

The men would still know who the women were to rape us.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 17:40

Katbum · 21/01/2025 23:33

Well you can be as unconvinced as you like. I think you haven't understood my point which is that both the EO and the trans movement traffic in concepts of biological essentialism that are ultimately not feminist.

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Which part of this is "not feminist"?

Sec. 4. Privacy in Intimate Spaces. (a) The Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security shall ensure that males are not detained in women’s prisons or housed in women’s detention centers, including through amendment, as necessary, of Part 115.41 of title 28, Code of Federal Regulations and interpretation guidance regarding the Americans with Disabilities Act.
(b) The Secretary of Housing and Urban Development shall prepare and submit for notice and comment rulemaking a policy to rescind the final rule entitled “Equal Access in Accordance with an Individual’s Gender Identity in Community Planning and Development Programs” of September 21, 2016, 81 FR 64763, and shall submit for public comment a policy protecting women seeking single-sex rape shelters.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 17:50

Pluvia · 22/01/2025 08:43

So why, when neutral 3rd spaces are proposed as a solution, do the TRAs react with such anger and talk of “othering”?

Because the whole point, for the vast majority of men in the GI movement who are motivated by extreme misogyny (which even Starmer is coming close to acknowledging) or fetishism, is breaking down women's boundaries and getting to film themselves in women's toilets, with a foot up on the basin to expose their bulge and sometimes even their naked genitalia. Some of them 'flash' women in a way that could be excused as an accident if the police were involved. We all know that flashing is frequently just an indicator of more worse sexual offending. The whole point of men in women's toilets is that it's seen as one over on women. They won't use third spaces because anyone can use third spaces and that's not what they want: they want to transgress for kicks.

Decent men observe boundaries. Any man in a women's toilet, unless he's a cleaner with good reason to be there, has made it plain what kind of man he is — a man who has no respect for women's boundaries.

Cleaners put signs up so you know they are there, so at least you make an informed choice to go in.

Fetishistic men don't.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 17:56

FlirtsWithRhinos · 22/01/2025 08:47

Maybe eventually we wouldn't even need some of those. Who knows? The point is that if we as a society decide we no longer need some of those things to be single sex, it's because single sex versions exist but have been unused for decades because everyone actively prefers the mixed version. It's not because activists have tried to force social change by taking them away when they were still wanted and needed and when data clearly shows there are significant differences in risks and outcomes aligned to sex.

Will that happen? Very unlikely if only because it means some pretty large world religions have changed some major tenets. But I can be open minded to things changing in the future without compromising the case for single sex provisions today. On the contrary, laying out what would have to have changed to make single sex provisions no longer necessary really highlights that we are no where near a world where that is the case.

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If the wokescolds were truly leftist, they'd recognise "I can be open minded to things changing in the future without compromising the case for single sex provisions today. On the contrary, laying out what would have to have changed to make single sex provisions no longer necessary really highlights that we are no where near a world where that is the case." as an example of a Marxist "transitional demand", in which we demand single sex provisions as an interim measure until men stop raping us.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 18:02

bumblingbovine49 · 22/01/2025 09:50

You see the problem I have with this (and I absolutely believe you can't change sex) is that this is a hammer to crack a nut. Can you see the list of resources being banned? These include at least two that I feel have no reason to be banned.

“Supporting Intersex Students: A Resource for Students, Families, and Educators” (October 2021);
(H) “Confronting Anti-LGBTQI+ Harassment in Schools: A Resource for Students and Families” (June 2021);

Where is the thought and the support for people who want to expresss themselves outside their sex sterotypes? Something that is common in the LGB community . Trans presenting children should be supported. They can present as the opposite sex if they want to and can be supported to do this at the same time as making it clear that they can't actually change sex. It can be treated as period of experimentation for young people. This is something adults can help them within kindness. For most children it will be a transitory period of experimentation and is fine, some of them may turn out to be gay or bi or just straight but wanting to experiment a bit. What is the probelm with any of that? None that I can see but it is up to the adults to guide them kindly with the facts

I can't see that this is what will happen with this legislation.

Conflating sex and gender expression is an issue for women's rights and I have no problem with strengthening the definitions but I am worried this will just lead to more extreme categorisation of gender sterotypes, leading to the 'women are like this and men are like this and nothing else is acceptable' type argument

(c) Each agency head shall promptly rescind all guidance documents inconsistent with the requirements of this order or the Attorney General’s guidance issued pursuant to this order, or rescind such parts of such documents that are inconsistent in such manner. Such documents include, but are not limited to:

Do you see that bit in bold? That's the bit that allows agency heads to redact the gender ideology parts of a document and leave the rest of the document intact.

These resources aren't necessarily being banned. They might be edited, but they don't have to be banned.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 18:12

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 11:18

I’m not reading that wall of text, I have a job and a life to live today - not to be spent arguing with a bunch of pseudo feminist Trump supporters who are regurgitating the same condescending phrases, just because I dared speak about empathy for those who have ‘transitioned’ under gender ideology. It’s not about ‘be kind’, it’s just basic humanity.

Those who do not have the cognitive capabilities to understand that someone is capable of concern for those people whilst also holding the belief that gender ideology is toxic, are pointless to engage with. The amount of vitriol and aggression in this thread is shameful, enjoy your little echo chamber - I am glad this is not reflective of life in the UK.

This is the third time you've said something like "enjoy your little echo chamber". It comes across like someone performatively gathering their things and storming out and getting upset that everyone else is just ignoring them or saying "OK, whatever" and keeps pointing out that they are leaving in the hope of getting the reaction they want.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 18:22

GlomOfNit · 22/01/2025 14:22

But they're not, not to the far right Christian lot who are currently partying. As far as they see it, giving young people who ID as trans, drug or surgical therapies is EXACTLY in the same basket as recognising the human rights and equality of gay, lesbian and bisexual people, or not being a racist dick, or not keeping women chained up in the 1950's.

I see very little to celebrate here. A massively misogynist and plutocratic group of cronies has taken power in the most powerful country on earth and this doesn't mean good things for women and girls, any more than it means good things for Black or Brown people, or gays and lesbians, or people who id as trans. I absolutely stand against the sorts of abuses we've seen in the name of 'enabling' kids who ID as trans, or grown men who want to inveigle themselves into women's spaces - but Trump's ascendency has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I don't understand how this is being seen as a victory. Sure, it is - if this is the one and only issue you care about. In a country where it's almost impossible to get an abortion before 6 weeks, I suspect many feminist women in the States will see it as a fairly hollow one.

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Multiple US states have abortion later than six weeks. Stop exaggerating. The US doesn't only contain Texas.

That executive order doesn't mention gay people, other than in a list of titles of documents to be amended, it doesn't mention race, and it mentions women only to uphold our rights.

President Pussygrabber's election is a natural consequence of Dems screaming "TERF! Bigot!" at every sex realist and alienating sex realist Dems. You reap what you sow here.

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:32

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 18:12

This is the third time you've said something like "enjoy your little echo chamber". It comes across like someone performatively gathering their things and storming out and getting upset that everyone else is just ignoring them or saying "OK, whatever" and keeps pointing out that they are leaving in the hope of getting the reaction they want.

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I think you are projecting your own upset and childishness, considering you seem obsessed with these threads and posting inane nonsense that contributes absolutely nothing. Calm down dear and have some discussions in the real world which actually matter.

Heggettypeg · 22/01/2025 19:32

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 10:24

Yawn. Enjoy your hateful echo chamber under the guise of women’s rights.

The mere existence of trans people doesn't threaten women's rights but the demands made by transactivists in the name of their identity have repeatedly done so. The worst effects are seen where gender identity has been most indulged at the expense of sex. For instance: in Australia, lesbians cannot now gather or date in women-only groups; any male who says he is a lesbian must be included. In Germany, a far right criminal is currently trying to identify himself into a women's prison. He may well succeed.

It's not only women's rights. In the UK alone, damage has been done to academic freedom, the principle of civil service impartiality and the coherence and integrity of public data. That's before we begin on the risks of a fashionable "solution" pushed at children and young people who are uncomfortable - for any reason - with who they are.

The concerns expressed on this board about women's rights and the threats posed by privileging gender ideology above reason are not a "guise". They are real and justified.

OvaHere · 22/01/2025 19:36

Calm down dear

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my five pounds.

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:37

@Heggettypeg You are preaching to the converted.

Heggettypeg · 22/01/2025 19:39

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:37

@Heggettypeg You are preaching to the converted.

Well that's a relief!

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 19:46

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:32

I think you are projecting your own upset and childishness, considering you seem obsessed with these threads and posting inane nonsense that contributes absolutely nothing. Calm down dear and have some discussions in the real world which actually matter.

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Insulting people doesn't win them over. I've supported my arguments with facts. Where are your facts?

teawamutu · 22/01/2025 19:46

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:32

I think you are projecting your own upset and childishness, considering you seem obsessed with these threads and posting inane nonsense that contributes absolutely nothing. Calm down dear and have some discussions in the real world which actually matter.

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Another use of 'dear'. Even when you point out the tells they still keep doing it 😂

Datun · 22/01/2025 19:48

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:32

I think you are projecting your own upset and childishness, considering you seem obsessed with these threads and posting inane nonsense that contributes absolutely nothing. Calm down dear and have some discussions in the real world which actually matter.

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Oh dear lord!

🤣🤣🤣

Datun · 22/01/2025 19:49

It's the modern day Violet Elizabeth Bott

DeanElderberry · 22/01/2025 19:51

'calm down dear' 'childishness' and 'the real world' ALL IN THE SAME POST.

Let them speak writ large. Women are not real human beings for you, are we?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/01/2025 19:54

Plastictrees · 22/01/2025 19:32

I think you are projecting your own upset and childishness, considering you seem obsessed with these threads and posting inane nonsense that contributes absolutely nothing. Calm down dear and have some discussions in the real world which actually matter.

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considering you seem obsessed with these threads

Says the poster who has posted 22 times on this thread to my 20. This will be my 21st post.

As I said, facts.

TheCatsTongue · 22/01/2025 20:04

Only in today's world could the election of a black woman to the leadership of the Conservative party be considered evidence of white supremacy and the protection of woman from male rapists in prison deemed to be damaging to women.

This is what you get when you compel people to called bearded Brian in men's clothes a woman, or a double rapist vulnerable because he wants to move to a women's prison.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/01/2025 20:14

Datun · 22/01/2025 19:49

It's the modern day Violet Elizabeth Bott

Who claims to be part of the "psychology community" yet displays a startling lack of insight while posting numerous intemperate insults on this thread.
All aimed at women - funny that.

Datun · 22/01/2025 20:50

Yes, psychology 'community' sounds almost comedically euphemistic.

MakeYourOwnMusicStartYourOwnDance · 22/01/2025 22:31

Brefugee · 22/01/2025 13:52

@MakeYourOwnMusicStartYourOwnDance - please describe how i am right wing based on my single belief that TWare men

I have posted several times, over the years, about how i am constantly and reliably placed firmly in the "left of Marx and Engles" communist (non authoritarian) quadrant on every political test i do. (that and the fact that i have been on more anti-facist/anti-right marches in the last 6 months than in the 6 years before)

thanks in advance.

Did I say you?
No, I didn't.
I said this board in general.
Unless you are actually saying you are all a hive mind now.

duc748 · 22/01/2025 22:39

If the original meanings of Left and Right still mean anything, I'd say that the centre of gravity of MN is certainly left of centre, and the FWR folder, probably even more so. Of course, I'm taking no account of the fact that many left-leaning political parties, unions, and so on, seem to have lost their collective minds.

Heggettypeg · 22/01/2025 22:53

duc748 · 22/01/2025 22:39

If the original meanings of Left and Right still mean anything, I'd say that the centre of gravity of MN is certainly left of centre, and the FWR folder, probably even more so. Of course, I'm taking no account of the fact that many left-leaning political parties, unions, and so on, seem to have lost their collective minds.

That was rather my impression at the time of the last UK election.

There were some posters who were clearly Conservative or even considering Reform, but a very characteristic type of post was on the lines of being a lifelong Labour/left of centre voter and being pretty sick at having to choose between giving up on that or supporting a party that were supporting gender ideology (Labour, Liberal, Green, Plaid and SNP all being a washout in this respect).

There were prolonged discussions about spoiling one's vote and whether it did any good in terms of making one's opinion visible. A lot of people said they felt politically homeless. I felt much the same - ended up casting my vote (Leftwards) on another issue dear to my heart, but feeling torn.
.