This is a paltry sentence for gang of rapists, isn’t it? In the Netherlands.

[Cailleach1]

A year ago, four youths brutally gang raped a homeless woman (multiple times and in multiple rounds) in a park in Helmond (The Netherlands). They are now between 17 and 18 years of age.

Three of them have been sentenced to 15 months, and one to 12 months in a Youth Detention Centre. They can get it reduced by 3 months in certain circumstances. A fifth chap has been given 4 months in juvenile detention because he was only found guilty of sexual assault.

Judge basically said these violent rapists were just misguided. I don’t think someone who is a violent rapist is just misunderstood if they brutally gang rape a vulnerable woman like that. I don’t think the poor woman really got much justice. Judge seems to think the gang rapists are the ones who need a helping hand.

“In this case, the four suspects convicted of gang rape were all “unaccompanied, minor foreigners,” the court noted, saying, “they still need a great deal of help and guidance in functioning in Dutch society.” They were also ordered to pay nearly 15,500 euros in compensation to the victim.”

archive.ph/zETM6

nltimes.nl/2025/01/14/four-convicted-gang-rape-homeless-woman-spend-15-mos-youth-detention

I'm in France and it's something that comes up a lot.

A few months ago a 19 year old female student was brutally raped and murdered by a Moroccan immigrant who had been convicted of rape within months of entering France, served a five year sentence, been released and issued with a OQTF (ordre de quitter la territoire française) and then let go by a judge. He almost immediately went on to rape and murder his next victim.

So in that case, France got the worst of both worlds. He was detained at the French taxpayer's expense for five years, and then not actually deported, with the result being that a young woman tragically lost her life.

If he'd been deported to Morocco after committing his original crime, maybe he wouldn't have served a prison sentence, but he probably also wouldn't have been in France and in a position to rape and murder a French woman.

I hope the judge who failed to deport him spends the rest of his life blaming himself for that poor woman's murder.

This is why I’m (semi seriously) proposing a Penis-Penal-Colony - I don’t want men like that to be sent back to Morocco to rape Moroccan women (or tourists or displaced Syrian/Lebanese women etc) either.

I can’t bring myself to research the recidivism rates for serious sexual crime right now but I suspect it’s high enough to warrant a harsher sentence than the current average.

I’m still pretty liberal in that I don’t think prison should be the automatic outcome for crimes that can be handled via a combo of tagging, community service and financial restitution but sex crime isn’t one of those crimes and the public safety aspect must be taken more seriously.

As for the woman who was brutally raped, I hope she was able to access everything she needed to become successfully and sustainably housed in the time since the crime occurred because the potential PTSD of being made a gang rape victim due to your accessibility as a homeless woman who then is STILL homeless AND your attackers received pitiful sentences seems akin to psychological torture to me.

I don't see the logic of an epidemic of male violence against women making you more right-wing about foreigners?
Surely it should make you more feminist about men?

You could deporting the small percentage of murderers and rapists who are migrants, but that is hardly going to make a dent in the femicide and rape stats in Western Europe which are, as you say, carried out by 'home grown rapists and murderers', and who usually have a close relationship with the victim, so they are not random strangers, whether foreigners or locals.

And realistically, if a foreign violent rapist is arrested in the UK, and is sent home, there will be an uproar about the fact that he will probably not be punished in his home country, and he may - as has in fact happened - continue to rape, and may make his way back to the UK and rape again.

A British rapist, Edward Godfrey, was deported back to England from Australia after a string of violent rapes, and then raped again once back in England.
The tabloid headlines at the time were along the lines of 'RAPIST SENT BACK TO UK TO RAPE AGAIN'.
I can see the same kind of headlines if foreign rapists convicted in the UK were just shipped off home - 'MONSTER RAPIST WALKS FREE TO RAPE AGAIN WITH TICKET HOME PAID FOR BY BRITISH TAXPAYER'.

I was planning a city break to the Netherlands but cancelled when I realised how utterly abhorrent their attitude to women and children seems to be (this was around the time the Olympic child rapist was in the news).

Imagine how awful to be a woman who has been to the police, had the horrific crimes against her prosecuted only for the judicial system to basically say 'oh poor rapists' and give them a paltry sentence alongside 'support' to be basic decent human beings (I wouldn't bet on that happening). I wonder if the woman victim is getting any support? And whether any future victims of these men will get any support?

I doubt these men's attitudes to women will improve.

I think they should be deported. The thing is, if we keep importing men who have an attitude that women are less than human then don't deport them (and let them get away with shit like this or the grooming gangs), the more the country shifts towards the attitude to women of their countries of origin - let's face it plenty of men in western countries are seemingly very open to removing rights from women. We already know many countries around the world that are hell holes for women. The Overton window keeps shifting away from women having equal human rights the more court cases like this that happen. I'd much rather the space taken up by these male immigrants in this or other western countries be taken up by women refugees from their country, and western countries remain places where women have equal human rights (well, at least to some extent and in differing degrees) and women can still find refuge from rape, murder and total lack of human rights in their country of origin.

And then there is this one. I am sorry if this man was sexually abused as a child, but he doesn’t seem to have managed to square the circle about how this doesn’t give him the right to rape a sleeping woman, or even understanding that having sex with a sleeping woman means she hasn’t consented.

It's time the Dutch judiciary wised up and gave proper justice to victims. These sentences are disgusting.

Why is the focus so.much on the perpetrators, why they did it, what'll help stop them, the impact of punishment etc etc.

What about focusing on what they did? The impact on the victim? What she needs to feel safe etc?

“In this case, the four suspects convicted of gang rape were all “unaccompanied, minor foreigners,” the court noted, saying, “they still need a great deal of help and guidance in functioning in Dutch society.”

ew. What country are they from where behaviour like this is deemed acceptable? Surely it should just be common sense that their actions are not appropriate regardless of the country.

@MarieDeGournay @MissScarletInTheBallroom I’m just responding to your discussion. I think the foreign national quote has rightfully raised concern. It’s scary to think lawless men from other countries can enter your country, sexually assault you, and still have the right to stay in your country. Obviously the issue is with men assaulting women and that isn’t geographically bound - however in the article OP linked, the offenders nationalities were relevant in giving them mitigation.

The plane ticket will at least cost the British taxpayer a lot less than a stint in jail.

We have enough of our own violent criminals to worry about.

Violent criminals from other countries are not our responsibility and should not be our problem.

There is no country where women have had equal human rights to men for a very long time. Our rights can disappear very quickly if we don't fight for them. Look at Afghanistan and Iran.

At the moment the UK, presumably the Netherlands and other Western countries are places where women from, for example, Afghanistan and Iran can find refuge and a better life for them and their children so their sons won't grow up to be misogynistic arseholes and their daughters will be safer and have access to education.

If we import vast quantities of men from their countries, accept their attitudes, focus on their needs, our countries will shift towards the prevailing attitudes of their countries. My question is really, why do we prioritise the needs, wants and 'rights' of men from these countries that see women as sub human and where women don't have human rights, rather than the women in these countries?

I've very happy to swap like for like every male criminal convicted who is deported with a woman and her children from the country they're deported to.

Yep, no point in granting asylum to the persecuted if we also grant asylum to their persecutors.

I think that rapists should be strung up by their balls but appreciate that's neither possible nor a punishment suitable for a civilised society

On the point of giving asylum to women and children; I met a woman from the Horn of Africa (Eritrea or Somalia) who had been given asylum in the Netherlands. It completely changed her life, and life chances. Although an adult when she arrived, it was only in the Netherlands where she was taught to read. She was extremely happy about this, and it seems to have been life changing. She said she hadn’t been taught to read in her home country as she was female. Maybe this depends on how much an individual family values their daughters, but I don’t know the numbers for female literacy in comparison to male literacy in general.

Her husband joined her two years after she arrived, but it seems in the meanwhile she had developed higher expectations of how she deserved to be treated. He had not had the benefit of her two years adjustment period, and apparently thought he could continue to treat her as he had back home. She decided she didn’t have to put up with that, and so divorced him. She seemed quite relieved about his departure from her life. And that of her son. She was very bitter about the practice of female genital mutilation in her home country. She said every bride dreaded her wedding night.

I must admit, after hearing her, I was thanking my lucky stars that my accident of birth didn’t land me in her situation in that part of Africa. Illiteracy; the wounds, pain and life long dangers of genital mutilation/infibulation. To top it off, being treated badly by whatever man thought he was in a position to do so. Or maybe most men. No waxing on about relative this or that would make that not seem to me like an extra special misery inflicted on women.

I think she was going on to further education, or training. She was a very admirable woman and was really empowered by her new life in the Netherlands.

I'm absolutely in support of a penal penis colony for violent men and asylum offered to women and their children from Afghanistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and anywhere else where women don't have full human rights.

Imagine a nation of women of all colours, united by their refusal to tolerate male violence.

With sexual and violent offences, I think that being gay, or apostate, or whatever is the emotive excuse of the week, should not prevent such criminals from being deported. After they've served the small fraction of their probably derisory sentences, they should remain in custody until they can be put on a plane and tucked off back whence they came.

This could be made clear to all applicants for asylum, or citizenship.

Would be a beautiful place.

Gets complicated though if they have sons they want to bring with them. How old is too old. What woman could leave her child? The rapists discussed here were 'children' after all.

Mothers can bring children. It would not be perfect because a small number of boys would commit rapes, but they then go to the juvenile penis penile colony, which is a nicer island than the adult one and is focussed on rehabilitation.

I can see you've really thought this through and I like it. Where can we vote for you for ruler of the entire world?