Three-day ban on Reddit for “hate”

[ConversingWithStrangers]

The only thing I can think of is posting on a UK sub about male violence. A man said that it’s not just men who have a problem with being violent because he’d been assaulted by a trans woman. I replied, “how did you know your assailant was trans?”.

They literally have subs for men to masturbate to videos of women who have a look of being “dead behind the eyes” they’ve been abused so much.

(It’s either that or somebody doesn’t like my crochet advice).

Lostcat

do you agree that if women say no, we want our spaces to be female only. That's entirely legitimate and should be accepted?

I don’t think we have the data to say who has a “biological propensity” to commit rape. I don’t condone naturalising sexual violence. Sexual violence is a social issue rooted in patriarchy.

Nor do I think it’s in any way rational to believe that sex segregation (based on reproductive capacity) in society is the solution to VAWG and protects women from rape. Like I say- this is the logic of groups like the Taliban, and it restricts women’s freedoms and in no way prevents violence against women and girls.

None of this is logical.

As for statistics demonstrating the overrepresentatjon of trans people in prisons- even if we do have appropriate comparative data to demonstrate this (we don’t) it in no way demonstrates the natural propensity of trans women to commit crimes. Again, violence is not “natural” but a social problem. There is a huge overrepresentation of people with certain minority ethnicities in the criminal justice system, this isn’t because these groups are more “naturally” violent, it’s because of structural racism/ social and economic disadvantage, etc.

To condense my point/question to @Lostcat further.

@Lostcat do you agree that ‘all trans women are women’ means TW have unrestricted access to ALL female spaces. That no safeguards are needed or allowed because it’s completely crazy to stop women from accessing women’s spaces. Is that your position?

Edited to add that b) men don’t need to pretend to be trans to rape women this must be by definition impossible because all trans women are women. There can be no pretending.

Yes. This is the deflective tactic that has become common with some posters.

When we talk about statistics from the MoJ that a poster doesn't want to discuss because it shows a significant flaw, deflect to something that can be dismissed.

I don’t think we have the data to say who has a “biological propensity” to commit rape.

We absolutely do have the data to say that biologically male people are vastly more likely to commit sexual violence than biologically female people. Hope that helps. I'm not really taking much you say seriously in any way at this point.

It doesn't just mean that all trans women have unrestricted access to women's spaces.

It means that everyone in the world has unrestricted access to women's spaces. Because anyone in the world can say "I identify as a woman", for any reason they like.

I won’t be responding to certain posters who are only interested in arguing/ weaponising (and attacking) my person/ swearing/ being rude.

You mean like you did to me? I am still angry at your response last night and your twisting of what was said to change it to 'phobia'. However, I don't really care if you think I am transphobic for wanting to protect my young adult DD from people who will try to coerce her into having to accept dick.

Stop weaponising an 18 year old.

Not allowing male people into women's toilets would have protected Katie Dolatowski's ten year old victim from sexual assault.

Is she just collateral damage to you?

Rape is rooted in abusive of power and patriarchy; not “caused” by “biology”. Men are not biologically programmed to rape, rape is a crime that men chose to commit. This is why the response is a criminal justice rather than a medical one.

First I’d like @Lostcat to confirm that they are saying a) all trans women are women, thus b) all TW must have access to women’s spaces.

Edited to add that I am hopeful that @Lostcat will confirm. That I’m not attacking or being abusive in any way. Genuinely wanting to confirm a correct understanding of their position.

Emotions, especially those formed through trauma, are powerful motivators and stimulators. Lots of people experience feelings of alienation from their body and their life. I've experienced that myself...it happened at an extremely stressful period of time.

Wanting to escape one's life, or one aspect of it is very common in human beings. We create fantasies, scenarios of different lives, different personas, different lifestyles. We nurture illusions that provide comfort and shield us from too much harsh reality.

I've listened to, and watched, many 'trans' stories and experiences. what they all have in common is a desire to escape some aspect of the self, and in particular to avoid the often heavy presuures of social or familial expectation...whether that be around behaviour, sexual orientation or conformity with gender roles. Some are escaping obvious traumas - such as rape or sexual abuse and a desire that this never happens again.

For some, usually men, there develops an urge to cross dress that usually starts in childhood or at adolescence ( Graysn Perry writes about this very well in his memoir) - and which has a strong erotic motivation. Most often these are heterosexual males but whose sexual orientation becomes directed towards experiencing oneself as female. This urge can completely take over their life, and relationships and marriages are negatively impacted. With the advent of queer theory and gender identity theory - an avenue and a justification for full time transition has now become available. People who once identified themselves as transvestites are now declaring trans identities.

However, one cannot really change sex. Sex is biological and not emotional. What distinguishes female people from male people is their biology and their body, not their personal preferences, imaginings or personality characteristics, nor their sexual orientation.

Women have dignity and integrity as adult human females - and they have, and deserve, privacy when it comes to certain types of situation in which their body or their bodily function is the most pressing matter.

People wth 'trans' identities are free to campaign for their own provisions.

Rape is rooted in abusive of power and patriarchy; not “caused” by “biology”. Men are not biologically programmed to rape, rape is a crime that men chose to commit.

Yes, overwhelmingly men rather than women. Regardless of personal feelings about gender identity either way.

Rape is caused by a penis owner's decision to non consensually penetrate another person using his penis.

Women do not have penises, @Lostcat. Rape is not a female crime.

'I don’t think we have the data to say who has a “biological propensity” to commit rape.'

The data is consistent across countries that MALE people have a propensity to commit sexual crimes at a far higher rate than female people.

It is not just 'rape' that male people have a far higher rate of committing though it is many other sexual crimes.

What data do you think needs to be collected to prove that male people, of all gender identities, commit sex crimes at a higher rate than female people?

'I don’t condone naturalising sexual violence. Sexual violence is a social issue rooted in patriarchy.'

Sure. Who here will disagree with you? What is the relevance of these sentences to your post? Distraction from the fact that you just wrote that you don't believe that sex crimes are mostly committed by male people (including those of any gender identity)?

Yes, overwhelmingly men rather than women. Regardless of personal feelings about gender identity either way.

Obviously I am fully aware that rape is a male crime requiring a penis in the UK, I'm speaking about sexual assault more broadly here.

The proposition that gender identity can be incongruent with physiology is unfalsifiable and therefore not worth debating.

Trans people exist, as a phenomenon, and should be accorded the dignity due to any person, including non-discrimination, protection from harm, and freedom of action, to the extent it doesn't harm others.

But I have questions for @Lostcat

Why should women prisoners be forced to share private spaces with physiological males, a disproportionate number of whom have been convicted of violent and/or sexual offences?

Why must sportswomen compete against physiological males, putting them at an unfair disadvantage and in physical danger?

Why must Orthodox Jewish women stay at home, because they are excluded from toilets/changing rooms/swimming sessions by the presence of physiological males?

Why does a transwoman need to be on an all-women shortlist/qualify for a women-only honour, when, if anything, transwomen are overrepresented in public life compared to women?

You are only interested in the subjective experience of transwomen, and not in the subjective experience (and objective disadvantage) of the very much larger number of actual women who are affected by all this.

I disagree in this interpretation. “Subconscious sex” is not about “emotions” or “wanting to escape one’s life”, and someone may be trans from very life absent of any social or environmental “trauma” . These are old, outdated psychoanalytic theories of transness (eg idea that it is rooted in trauma / illness that can be unpacked through therapy) same as we used to understand sexuality- this doesn’t work and isn’t supported by the evidence.

Are you now going to try to convince us that male people can be 'deprogrammed' to not commit sex crimes and that a special group of male people who believe that they are female are those who have and can be deprogrammed to not commit sex crimes? Therefore male people who believe they are female people should not be excluded from female single sex spaces.

And just a reminder to us all, that rape is not the only sex crime that male people have a higher propensity to commit. It also includes non-consensual touching, including rubbing up against people who are non-consenting, voyeurism, exhibitionism, viewing child rape content, and the list goes on and on.

Male sexual behaviour is quite distinctive from female sexual behaviour in most species. The drives are different, and this is programmed at a basic, hormonal and biological level. You only have to look at the gay male club or cruising scene to see how unobstructed male sexual behaviour can manifest...in a way you simply don't see in females, or on the lesbian scene.

Individual males, like all of us, have the potential for self control, and most men practice self control. But lots of men don't or can't - and so we have safeguarding measures in place to protect women and girls and to offer them dignity and privacy in the facts of their sex in certain types of intimate situation.

A man does not have to be violent to be predatory, though. Males, as a group, tend to engage in various paraphilias in a way that females simply do not. For example, voyeurism, self exposure, various types of fetishistic behaviour ( foot fetishes, for example). You'll find that many males with trans identities have engaged in prostitution ( with other males). It seems very common, in fact.

Rape (and sexual assault/ abuse more generally) is rooted in abuse of power and patriarchy; men commit rape because of power. It is not a “biological” problem, requiring a medical solution, or the segregation of humans based on gametes; it’s a social problem/ political problem that is addressed by dismantling structural power imbalances/ inequalities between men and women.

When you've fixed the societal issues so that sexual assault and rape no longer take place maybe we can pick up the conversation about dismantling protections for women. In the meantime, it seems prudent to keep them.

And why do males have the power, do you think?

Then you would expect females in positions of power to rape males with less power - but this does not happen, does it? Rape requires a penis, anyway. That is the definition.

Males have greater physical power, and always will - which is also why we have single sex sports categoies. That males tend to be bigger, stronger, faster etc is biological...not social.

*from very early life.

Would you then agree that trans women are more powerful than women?

If they weren't, they wouldn't be able to rape women.