Three-day ban on Reddit for “hate”

[ConversingWithStrangers]

The only thing I can think of is posting on a UK sub about male violence. A man said that it’s not just men who have a problem with being violent because he’d been assaulted by a trans woman. I replied, “how did you know your assailant was trans?”.

They literally have subs for men to masturbate to videos of women who have a look of being “dead behind the eyes” they’ve been abused so much.

(It’s either that or somebody doesn’t like my crochet advice).

You quote yourself more than anyone else i have ever seen….is there a particular reason for it?

Sex is a reasonable marker to have on a passport because it is objectively verifiable physical data. Gender identity is subjective and potentially variable. Putting it on a passport would be completely pointless because nobody can check whether it's true.

Nonsense.

If you're telling us that male people can be lesbians, you are in fact redefining actual lesbians' (the real kind) sexuality for them.

The discussion about what being trans is. As I said- no point discussing policy until there is some understanding of this.
I was discussing with others as we had been through a discussion about this and had some basic consensus around what we sort of meant (at least) by certain ideas/ terminologies.

And even if we could verify it, nobody would care.

Exactly, and the relentless homophobia of this is there for all to see.

It doesn't matter what being trans is.

The existence of trans people has no bearing on what a woman is.

Our right to define and discuss ourselves and have our own spaces should not be conditional on not upsetting trans people. We are half the global population and they are a tiny and very demanding minority.

It no longer surprises me when posters arguing in favour of giving males access on demand to women and girls in a state of undress express contempt for women and girls’ privacy and dignity and safety.

It’s a pretty regular pattern.

Yes, imagine a world where there was an objective test for “gender identity”, a blood test, a scan, a gene marker etc. If people are claiming it to be a verifiable scientific reality, we can’t be far off from that.

I would look forward to the day where all the “male lesbians” queue up for this test to validate their identity which they would never do.

if you think trans people don’t matter , let’s leave it at that.

You are mixing up (I hope unconsciously rather than maliciously) two different concepts of gender.

The first, the one that is relevant in the majority of social situations, is the gender constructs that others project onto us because of our sex. These affect how we are seen and treated regardless of how we may see ourselves, and what our actual abilities, preferences and needs are.

The second is the self-identified unconscious sex which some people (trans or otherwise) believe they have. This may be related to the gender constructs above in that a person's belief about their own gender is formed by feeling an alignment to one of these external gender constructs, but crucially this gender is not something projected onto a person by others regardless of who they actually are, but a belief of the person about their own self that therefore fully aligns to who they are.

Pretending that women who suffer the limitations of having the external constructs of womangender imposed on them and want to escape them are somehow the same people with the same needs and challenges as trans women who embrace those constructs and wish to be seen exactly as that womangender is disingenuous in the extreme.

Oh yea because that’s definitely what I said. Just like I said that lesbians weren’t lesbians and id tell them that. Oh wait…

I didn't say they don't matter.

But they don't matter more than the rest of us.

They're very welcome to campaign for their own spaces if they feel they need them.

However, if their position is that women shouldn't be allowed to have words for ourselves or any spaces or sports which exclude male people, because that's upsetting to trans people, they can do one, quite frankly. The world does not and should not revolve around them. Their right to swing their fist stops where everyone else's nose begins.

the gender constructs that others project onto us because of our sex.

Ah no this isn’t how it works. We rarely inspect someone’s genitals to assign gender in everyday situations. Gender doesn’t derive from sex- sex derives from gender - the psychological processes / social cues by which we recognise and assign identities to ourselves and others .,

Err you literally said that it doesn’t matter what a trans person is, and that “nobody cares” about gender identity.

Anyway..

Your post - with its scare quotes around privacy and dignity and belittling use of “unanticipated impregnation” for an unwanted pregnancy - made your scorn for women who care about the rights of women and girls crystal clear.

Hi @Lostcat

You seem to have missed off the context for this post. Were you replying to this post from @MissScarletInTheBallroom

It doesn't matter what being trans is.
The existence of trans people has no bearing on what a woman is.
Our right to define and discuss ourselves and have our own spaces should not be conditional on not upsetting trans people. We are half the global population and they are a tiny and very demanding minority.

?

Because if so, she clearly was not saying "trans people don't matter" and it's very bad faith of you to imply this.

flirts agreed

Er no, it made my scorn for the idea that social segregation based on reproductive anatomy is a vital social policy- an effective and necessary means for ensuring safety for women and girls, and justified because of reproductive roles/ capacities - clear.

I consider that to be a profoundly “conservative” (and highly irrational) notion that is antithetical to sexual and reproductive freedoms for women and girls, as well as sexual and gender minorities.

I stand by both those statements.

You can talk about trans people until the cows come home, you could provide the most compassionate and compelling explanation of what a trans person is, none of it would make even the slightest bit of difference to what a woman is.

Because women still exist, whether or not trans people exist. Female people objectively exist, whether or not we are allowed to have words for those people, and whether or not some female people think they are male or male people think they are female. Objective reality will continue to exist.

How on earth could your lengthy and impassioned explanations about trans people change the reality of what a woman is?

Women exist. This site is full of them. And we have a right to describe and discuss ourselves, irrespective of what a trans person is. I'm not a trans person, trans people are largely irrelevant to my life, and I don't need trans people's permission to describe and discuss myself and women in general, in a way that doesn't take into account trans people's gender identities.

As for gender identities not being of interest to other people in general, well, of course they're not. Why would they be? Isn't it rather narcissistic to think that everyone should have some avid interest in the way you perceive yourself? I don't expect anyone else to care what my favourite colour is, or my favourite band. That kind of information isn't on my passport because it is of no relevance to border control or anyone needing to check my ID. So why should gender identity be recorded?

Because if so, she clearly was not saying "trans people don't matter" and it's very bad faith of you to imply this

and yet she responded to my post stating that she “stands by both statements”. So, yeh, I guess you are wrong in your leap to defend and accuse.

No bad faith on my part.

I stand by the statements I made, not your disingenuous interpretation of them. Hopefully my longer explanation above will clear things up for you.

As I said, it no longer surprises me when posters arguing in favour of giving males access on demand to women and girls in a state of undress - which is your position given that you consider single-sex female-only spaces unjustified - express contempt for women and girls’ privacy and dignity and safety - which you’ve just done as you’ve made clear that you don’t believe women have the right to the privacy and dignity of female-only spaces.

Yes, it's pretty shitty to suggest that women shouldn't have any sex segregated spaces because you personally don't see the need for them.

(OK, you don't see the need for them. But many women do and will find it more difficult to participate in public life without them. So why shouldn't they have what they need?)

But if you're going to take this view, logically you should be advocating for the total abolition of all sex segregated spaces. Not for men who believe they identify as women to have access to women's spaces on the basis of "gender identity". Something which, as I said above, I don't believe most people have.

I’m not interested in dialogue with posters who just make up stuff and pretend I said it.

So i will be adding you to my list of bad faith posters / non- replies.