Important article by Lionel Shriver

[FarriersGirl]

Leading article in the Times today by Lionel Shriver. She has long been a critic of woke but really doesn't pull any punches. In particular she highlights the fact that far from being progressive the era of woke has been the opposite.

www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/ditching-woke-brain-rot-transgender-pronouns-58g8dpxnp

Finally we’re ditching the woke brain rot - share token

www.thetimes.com/article/63d6cc31-7a40-4d63-abba-8938f79c6c6f?shareToken=addf06eb53e41d04fbb97e1bc83e02ab

I noticed it said it was originally published in Spiked. This is the original article.

www.spiked-online.com/2024/12/20/we-may-finally-be-recovering-from-the-woke-brain-rot/

God she is depressing. So much pound-per-word contrarian moaning. Whenever I read her columns I find it hard to believe that she wrote the magnificent We Need To Talk About Kevin.

She seems to specialise in being Too Affronted to sort out which is baby and which is bathwater. I don't particularly want gender critical thought to be lumped in with her gammony raging about anti-racist initiatives.

I'd very much like to meet Lionel Shriver. I don't think she'd be comfortable company for a minute, but her absolute clarity of expression is incredible.

I don’t like much of what she says but I agree that extremism in left wing politics caused an enormous back lash which in turn has led to the increase in right wing extremism and now threatens to undo all the good which the more moderate left had previously achieved.
The madness of trans activism was the straw which broke the camel’s back.

She makes me really uneasy. John Lewis advert filmed in Nigeria, for featuring black people? How is that not blatant racism?

Celebrating the come back of the word retarded? Really?

You've perfectly summed up how I feel reading this. I agree with her position on gender identity, but this is a nasty, bitter article with racist and ablist undertones (celebrating the return of the word "retarded" FFS).

Cross-posted!

She's a free speech absolutist and vehemently against anything she regards as tokenism.

I'm not comfortable reading those words either, but she excels in the uncomfortable. She's the literati equivalent of KJK, perhaps?

And KJK makes me equally uneasy. I would not line up on the barricades beside either of them

She sounds like she ate Katie Hopkins.

We can celebrate the good sense which is finally prevailing on gender and gender affirmation -thank goodness.

I can't work out whether she's having a laugh or is in earnest with much of the rest of her article, but I don't like it. There, I said it.

A massive FFS from me.

I'm inclined to agree with PP that while I agree with her position on gender identity and can appreciate the clarity of her arguments, she's not someone I feel allied too.

Racism and disablism are not OK. A second Trump presidency is nothing to celebrate and people like Shriver risk labelling GC feminists as bigots.

Hm, I sometimes read things, and think "They're having a literary wank." This article feels a bit like that to me. As @teawamutu says, she may 'excel in the uncomfortable' but here she's just polishing away for the sake of it.

This absolutely. She is the intellectual equivalent of a marmite sandwich for me.

I actually would like to attend a dinner party with her as a guest. I find her interesting and forthright. I for sure don’t agree with everything she thinks or says but that is ok. I like that. Her novels are hit or miss. Kevin was fantastic.

Exactly this. As a chronic, craven people -pleaser I'm genuinely fascinated by people who give no fucks. I always wonder how they do it.

I see the purity police are out in force taking their kicks at KJK. The call must have gone out in Brighton. Real socialist feminism needed on Mumsnet now, get up, get posting, get deploring!

I'm behind Shriver, even on what the virtue-signalling early brigade call the racism. The decolonisation and SJW movements, BLM — all part of the greater problem. See the Evergreen videos for evidence. I'm also behind KJK. I don't own a piece of her merchandise, I've never been to one of her rallies, but even so I credit her with being really effective at mobilising women that WPUK couldn't reach.

Thank you for the share token.

I think this is true:
They didn’t invent their wretched ideas; they’re reading from a common hymn sheet. That’s why they all use the same words and subscribe to the exact same roster of convictions, no matter how preposterous: these people aren’t original thinkers. But they imagine they’re at the cutting edge.

I agree with various posters that Lionel is often an uncomfortable read and like others I am not keen on her politics. I am however encouraged that this article is in the Times. The comments beneath it show it has stimulated a very strong debate today which can only be good.

I don't agree that we have to swing that far away from the left to correct the places it's gone too far.

Just because the morons identify as neuro diverse, doesn't mean all ND people should be grouped in, we do still have issues with racism that you can recognise even if you don't agree with applying conclusions from BLM and US armed police to all western countries.

It's a bit mean/wrong to call out one black woman university professor for being hired while under qualified whilst supporting Trump, who wasn't remotely qualified for politics. He's as much a result of identity politics as the left.

I don't think this is a good article, it's got as many clickbait "hymn sheet" points as the people she's criticising.

Same, although as a portly person, I'd rather be called portly than "a person living with overweight" or whatever.

She's also correct re gender politics and I really hope the tide is turning at least to a point where a civilised conversation might be able to be had about it. But wonder if the very angry, violent, aggressive, genie is out of the bottle there.

i think there is a massive difference between DEI (or EDI) policies that promote - rather than include - ideas about gender identity, and inclusive policies that seek to level the playing field to push back on racism and disability discrimination.

So while i can let out a small cheer on her clear language around gender identity, the idea that free speech allows us to use disgusting ableist language isn't something that i will ever be on board with any more than i am on board with the return of overt sexism and racism, and i will never stop pushing back against the covert versions of those two

Yeah, I stopped reading at her comments about the word ‘retarded’.
I also can’t stand when people sanctimoniously speak of ‘British values’, especially in the context of the BBC. Meaningless dog whistle.

I agree with her on gender identity, and not much else. I found her articles about the Covid pandemic very frustrating, because she seemed absolutely certain that all the restrictions to contain the pandemic were unnecessary, and a huge over-reaction to the actual seriousness of the pandemic. She seemed oblivious to the fact that epidemiologists were dealing with a large amount of complex data, and advising governments as best they could under the circumstances. You can describe her position as demonstrating "clarity of thought" but "over-simplification" would be a better description.

She sounds like she ate Katie Hopkins.

This is the best description. Even if she is right about women not having penises, it doesn't mean she's right about the rest of it. I, for one, would be horrified if the word 'retarded' made a comeback.

The comments underneath her article unearth a plethora of hate - had no idea she was such a Joe Rogan rabble rouser of the right