CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

[Chariothorses]

Following public objections, the CPS announced yesterday they have changed the proposed legal guidance on Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO), specifically the guidance on “Deception as to gender”, which can be found in Chapter 6 Consent, to 'Deception as to sex'. Rape and Sexual Offences - Chapter 6: Consent | The Crown Prosecution Service.

The outcome of the consultation is available here: Consultation on the Deception as to Gender section in the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO) legal guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service.

summary of consultation responses here: Consultation on CPS guidance on Deception as to Gender - Summary of Responses | The Crown Prosecution Service.

There are ongoing problems re ideological capture by trans lobbyists and misogyny within the CPS so thanks to all who contributed to the changes they have reluctantly introduced.

I would say it's when you try to pretend not to be upset about something when you really are.

It means that lesbians have to pretend to enjoy having sex with men but trans people must not have to cope with anything they don't want to.

Cope is often joined with seethe too. As in ‘Cope and seethe’!

Such as ‘you don’t think I pass?’ Picture posted with a ‘cope!’ Which is part of ‘cope and seethe’! Which I read to be basically saying ‘look how wrong you are!’

As I said, that twitter profile, Theresa Verity, is rather over confident that they pass even in photos. But it didn’t take long to see tweets that show they are not female (even without checking the bio).

For instance a cope could be that you repeatedly post that people who don't want to have sex with you are "bigots"

I see it as 'put up with it, loser'. And cope and seethe is 'put up with it and be angry - too bad.'

All seems perfectly reasonable to me. I’m a straight woman, I don’t want to have sex with another female. In the unlikely event a woman “passed” enough for me to think she was a man and I had some form of sexual encounter with her and I subsequently found out she was female then yes I’d feel I’d been tricked into sex that I wouldn’t have given consent for if I’d known.

And yes i think people should be prosecuted for that. I know there was such a case a few years ago and the female involved was sent to prison for a few years. It had devastated the woman she deceived.

That's not the first TW that I have noticed with a sparkly new first name and surname that are both female names.

I’m reminded of this…

God, what puke.

Exactly what you're looking for in a sexual relationship. Being able to cope.

Ugh

At least on twitter there are some people who are saying the quiet bit out loud.

x.com/theresaverity/status/1870330941048254911?s=46

“We don't go stealth to get our jollies from tricking random people into having sex with us.”

“We do it to survive.”

“I grew up at a time when we had no rights; when there was no legal recognition and where stealth was the only escape from hell”

Operation: Let them speak.

Continuing to call it ‘stealth’, shows absolutely that those doing it understand that it is deception. I am surprised that those using the word hadn’t considered this aspect.

So if people understand they are deceiving others because they use the word ‘stealth’, they understand that they under such deception, the other partner cannot consent.

“We don't go stealth to get our jollies from tricking random people into having sex with us.”

“We do it to survive.”

really means

If we didn’t trick people into having sex with us, we would not have sex.

And apparently these people need to have sex to ‘survive’.

Honestly, the inconsistencies are coming very thick and fast. They must know by now that there is no conscionable way to present this. It was never acceptable.

I've left him a couple of comments.

Why do they all use the word stealth. Do they not realise how creepy it is?

Apparently not. But don't forget, other people are just animated props in their fantasy lives.

I once read a (really dire) story that a TW had written. Basically their own fantasy. All about how they were having an ongoing relationship with a man, who had no idea they were male. But then he eventually found out. And although he was angry at the deception, it was more about why didn't you tell me, I'm mad about you, you're so beautiful, and sexy and exactly like a woman and the sex is the best evah.

It really is all about the fantasy of being an actual woman, and therefore attracting a heterosexual man.

This legislation threatens the legitimacy of that fantasy.

Willoughby always comes across as absolutely fuming, and now this person, too. Unsurprising, I suppose.

I am probably going to regret posting here and am aware this is very much an "in group" posting space, but I am just wondering - isn't this a bit of a drama over nothing 99.99% of the time?

If you are massively only attracted to certain chromosomes, surely you just say that early on? Either have that in your dating profile (I dunno "proud GG feminist looking for natal man/woman") or something, or mention it on a first date. And I'd imagine 99.9999% of trans people wouldn't want to sleep with you then and the only ones who would would be the kind of predators who would be predatory anyway. Like, I have various dealbreakers for people I will or won't sleep with, and I mention it early because several of my dealbreakers aren't visible either. And that's just how dating goes?

Well, it's not just proud GC feminists who have a sexual orientation.

If the words woman, man, gay, straight, lesbian and bi are absolutely meaningless, do you really expect everyone on the planet to talk about chromosomes?

We already have men saying they are biologically female and others refusing to discuss chromosomes at all!

That's why this legislation is necessary. It's now a crime to deceive.

Personally, I'm straight. I'm not interested in sleeping with women, no matter how they identify. I like women perfectly well as friends, I have no problem with vulvas (what with having one of my own and all), I just don't find them sexually attractive.

Should I date someone get so far along in that that we're planning to sleep together, and then I discover they are actually a woman, then I'm going to feel tremendously betrayed.

Lying about something as fundamental as your sex is always going to be a huge problem - the idea that your sex doesn't matter but how you dress does is a fundamental disconnect from reality (also not great in a partner if we're being honest here).

BTW, I don't know what you mean by 'in-group posting space' but I don't agree - we're all welcome to post here, it's a public site - yes you'll be challenged if people don't agree with your opinions though. So in fact, it's actually the opposite of what I would call an in-group posting space - anyone can say what they like (within the wider MN rules).

Occasionalnamechanger

Wanting to preserve your sexual orientation doesn't cut the mustard anyway.

You have men trying to infiltrate lesbian only online dating and social sites, to the point of taking the women to court. Trying, quite literally hundreds of times to get past facial recognition.

Stating that they're not the right chromosomes is less of a deterrent, and more of a magnet.

lol at we’re the drama 😂

It's only a little bit rapey so shush ladies.

Well, it's not just proud GC feminists who have a sexual orientation.
If the words woman, man, gay, straight, lesbian and bi are absolutely meaningless, do you really expect everyone on the planet to talk about chromosomes?

Well, yeah, if their definition of sexual orientation is "it doesn't matter if you look like a woman and have breasts and a vagina and I didn't know until you told me" then that seems to be to be a fairly specific orientation.

Otherwise it is like a load of things you don't know and would hate if you found out (for better or worse, I guess). Like...I know a couple of gay people who don't want to date bisexuals. It is a massive dealbreaker. I know this and so I think it would be hugely unethical of me to decide to try and seduce one of them. I don't think it would be on me to announce any time I went on a first date with a woman that I'm bisexual and they might not want to date me and it certainly wouldn't be illegal, surely, if they didn't ask and I didn't say?

Or would it be?

I'm kind of incredulous that people still don't know, or claim they don't know, that wanting to exclude men because they're the wrong sex, and they won't let us, is the entire point.

If a lesbian tells a man she is a lesbian, the chromosome aspect is implicit.

They don't suddenly go, well if you're a lesbian I'm coming in, but you're a lesbian with two X chromosomes then fair enough.

I know a couple of gay people who don't want to date bisexuals. It is a massive dealbreaker. I know this and so I think it would be hugely unethical of me to decide to try and seduce one of them.

Quite.

And no, it wouldn't be illegal. Because it's not about whether you're bisexual, it's about pretending you're the opposite sex.

That's why this legislation is necessary. It's now a crime to deceive.

To be precise I don't think they've actually changed the law recently, have they. Just clarified that contrary to some beliefs, the law does apply to those identifying as the opposite sex.