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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How many terfs are out there?

153 replies

Runor · 01/12/2024 11:05

I spent years in the wilderness, not talking about my terfiness irl, because friends had been politely distancing themselves from my views. Things are changing. I now know about a dozen people who have previously quietly asked me to ‘be kind to men who think they are women’ (I paraphrase), who are now strongly espousing TWANW.

What can we do? Recommend books and podcasts. Ask what people think about men in women’s sport, men in women’s changing rooms and hospital wards. Ask them if the like JKR 😉 Anything else?

We need to find each other irl. We all need to see that we are a huge majority that has been silenced for too long. Not everybody can, not everywhere is safe, but maybe now is the time to test the water?

OP posts:
cheezncrackers · 02/12/2024 11:50

My kids and all their friends call it 'attention seeking'!

Mine too. Gen Z has totally seen the light. My kids just roll their eyes and think the 'trans kids' are annoying.

BlastedPimples · 02/12/2024 11:53

I refuse to be called TERF. Who is anyone to call a woman anything but a woman? Feck off.

I believe XX women are women and a man in a frock is not a woman ever whatever surgery or hormones he takes,

Bannedontherun · 02/12/2024 12:13

@MarieDeGournay surprisingly i noticed and you know how “good” my grammar, and spelling is

😁

OhamIreally · 02/12/2024 12:22

They all know. They all still know. They're pretending they don't because it benefits them, either because they want to trample on women's rights or because they've been scared off, but they all know. They all know which class of people they're prioritising over which other class. They all know which of their parents is their mother. They all know which changing room or sporting team they want the penised people to infiltrate. If they moved to Iran or Afghanistan, they know exactly which group of people will have rights over which other group of people. They. All. Know.

@NonPlayerCharacter absolutely and this is spectacularly borne out by the exception in the GRA to hereditary peerages where it was considered that a male might be deprived of his birthright by an older sister transitioning.

NonPlayerCharacter · 02/12/2024 12:34

OhamIreally · 02/12/2024 12:22

They all know. They all still know. They're pretending they don't because it benefits them, either because they want to trample on women's rights or because they've been scared off, but they all know. They all know which class of people they're prioritising over which other class. They all know which of their parents is their mother. They all know which changing room or sporting team they want the penised people to infiltrate. If they moved to Iran or Afghanistan, they know exactly which group of people will have rights over which other group of people. They. All. Know.

@NonPlayerCharacter absolutely and this is spectacularly borne out by the exception in the GRA to hereditary peerages where it was considered that a male might be deprived of his birthright by an older sister transitioning.

I have never known a single person, on or offline, who didn't demonstrate one way or another that they know who the women are. I have a relative with pronouns in his sig etc who says it's insane to think TW aren't W, but he's put his two sons into a separate bedroom to his daughter and I know he doesn't want boys in the room when she changes for her sport, or in the field against her. Another who says TWAW but leaves all the drudgery and family care to his wife and daughter. Everyone who points a man towards the women's sports when he says he's a woman knew which competitors were women and needed to be silenced to accommodate the man. Plenty of men are GC including some TW, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone call them terfs and they've definitely never been called Karen. Don't think I've ever seen them get death or rape threats either.

They. All. Know.

Fordian · 02/12/2024 13:38

I'm a TERF but am disappointed by the 'be kind' brigade composed almost entirely of 25-35 year old young women in my (now ex-) NHS department, many with daughters, who cannot understand the ridiculousness (and potential dangers) of having to ask a drunk, hairy, 6' trucker called Bruce if he's pregnant, of a Saturday night, before x- raying him, who then CHECK you and he signed it and scanned it into his medical record.

My trade union have explicitly said that not going along with this pretence is a disciplinary offence.

I do wonder how many of these women would privately admit they also think it's bollocks.

However, one man there who I know well got a bit shirty with me in a private discussion, asking me if I knew how 'distressing' it might be to be a transman to have the reality of your female biology set out before them, which to his mind justified the unprofessional nonsense of asking EVERYONE 12-55 if they might be pregnant....

However, he is from a very homophobic culture, and I am beginning to suspect he might be hiding his I think reasonably obvious homosexuality behind thoughts of transing.

cocoromo · 02/12/2024 19:40

Huffalumps · 01/12/2024 17:09

Hear hear to all these amazing comments.

I don't see many people but live rurally where people call a spade a spade and know the difference between a Mabel and a George. I used to work in a local cafe and met loads of people. Every single one of my friends and family are terfs. I met loads of people in the cafe who brought up the tra nonsense unprovoked, usually around the toilet access issue (there was one for each sex in this cafe). It very much brought me down out of the tree on this. I am now firmly of the opinion the be-kinders are exclusively in woke cities and the woke professions (basically any gen z straight out of uni). Unfortunately the teachers are totally captured. Something must be done about this.

We are not all captured - we are making slow and steady progress from the inside as best we can without loosing our jobs :)

5128gap · 02/12/2024 20:40

I'm prime TERF demographic, so no surprises for me and my peers. But I work in a progressive sector with people age 21 to 60+, of many different backgrounds and ethnicities, various sexualities; and not one believes TWAW. I know this as its relevant in our work. I have adult DC age 25 -35 and none of them, their partners or friends, who come from various social classes, industries, education levels and nationalities believe TWAW. The parents of a trans teen boy i am acquainted with do not believe it. And now neither does their son himself, having recently detransitioned.

Swashbuckled · 02/12/2024 22:28

I was on a UK holiday about three or four years ago. I got talking to some other women there. We were very different; they probably saw me as a liberal leftie. I was in my doc martens and jeans, and they were wearing flowery dresses and heels with handbags for their Saturday night out. But we were hanging out together in the local pub, which had an act booked. The act was a singer; a man with a full beard, wearing a short skirt and heels. He was billed as a trans act. Lots of holidaymakers in the pub were being supportive and friendly to the act, possibly because they were being kind and because it was something a bit different.

I felt uncomfortable with the love being shown. But I didn’t want to say anything because I thought I’d sound a bit FWR and I didn’t want to make myself even more different to the women I was at the table with. I didn’t feel like coming out as a TERF when we were just out for a few drinks.

The act had brought his following with him. There were about 15 men. They weren’t dressed up in an obviously drag way. They were wearing (for example) boot cut jeans, a long sleeved T-shirt with a scalloped edge, and heeled ankle boots. There was a bit of a “Per Una” look among them. One of them had a look of Mick Jagger. But they were mostly tall; six footers. Not a lot of make-up; maybe some subtle mascara and a touch of lip gloss. But all protein; slim with muscles; all Adam’s apples and protruding jaws.

I made some sort of tentative bland observation about this group of men. One of the women in my group said “And which fucking toilet are they planning on using then? Cos if I find one of them in the Ladies I’ll wrap the fucking sink round his fucking head!”. She meant it. I was impressed and had every faith she’d follow through with this, if necessary. Relieved, I made a comment about her feeling this way. She said “Of course I fucking do! Who wouldn’t?”

This woman was big and strong and tattooed. I imagined she’d come off best in any fights she’d already had. I don’t believe she’d know what a TERF is, or even heard the word before.

But she knew they were taking the piss. I was feeling a little bit different before she said that; a little alienated (not unusual). But that shot of mutual recognition blots out every other difference among women. It was a good moment; nothing major, but I’ve never forgotten it.

There are loads of women who don’t know what a TERF is but know what bullshit and violence, is.

I wonder if they don’t think they need a “movement” to join because, if a man in a dress went into the ladies in their local, they’d just rip his balls off and punch him onto the street. And he wouldn’t go back.

Bannedontherun · 02/12/2024 22:34

@Swashbuckled fucking hell can i have your mates please 😂

Swashbuckled · 02/12/2024 22:44

@Bannedontherun

🤣

unmemorableusername · 02/12/2024 22:49

The silent majority.

Swashbuckled · 02/12/2024 22:55

The woman in my story probably wouldn’t have even called them a trans group. I imagine she’d have rolled her eyes and referred to them as a bunch of “cock-women”.

Would it not be more effective to start calling them something like that? (A phrase that all women would understand.)

Bannedontherun · 02/12/2024 22:57

I use the phrase Lesbi-men as obvs TWAW are lesbians as set out in the Supreme Court argument for the Scottish government. Sigh

Swashbuckled · 02/12/2024 23:00

That’s funny; made me smile 😊.

But not all women would get the sarcasm.
We need those women too.

LunchBoxPolice · 02/12/2024 23:28

👋

UtopiaPlanitia · 03/12/2024 00:52

VeronicasMonocle · 02/12/2024 08:09

This thread is equal parts heartening and depressing. Amazing to see so much support for sex realism (ie. reality) and that sanity has at least somewhat returned to the UK. Depressing because although I'm British I live in Canada and it feels completely different here. I don't feel I can even attempt to sus out if there are any fellow terfs. I work in a completely captured sector and giving even the merest suggestion that I may not be fully accepting of GI beliefs feels like career suicide. I find it hard to understand how Canadians are so bought into gender woo. They all seem utterly oblivious to any other perspectives and very much on the JKR is a fascist bigot train. It seems like Canada is years behind the UK and even with an upcoming election and the likely change to a conservative government by the end of 2025 Canadians will very much define themselves against the US (especially after Trump's win) and I can foresee anyone who considers themselves left/liberal absolutely doubling down on the gender stuff. It is very lonely.

I know how you feel, it's the same in middle-class & official Ireland.

It's Small Country Syndrome - countries with lower populations, with a stifling middle-class self-perception or a stifling national culture that is heavily promoted as part of the country's international brand. Citizens and governments defining themselves in opposition to the big neighbouring country and the country not having a large enough population in which tipping points to enable change are easily reached.

Waitwhat23 · 03/12/2024 07:33

There's an interesting concept that countries which were previously staunchly authoritarian/religious/witchburny etc go to the opposite extreme when embracing a swing to the authoritarian 'liberal/left'/TWAW side as a way to prove that they've changed. In Scotland, we've moved from being the centre of an astonishing lust for witchhunting, from enforced church attendance and a society that my mum's generation remember as extraordinarily misogynist to a country who insist, under threat of punishment, that you deny the evidence of your eyes and elsewhere and swear allegiance to the new religion of gender ideology.

cheezncrackers · 03/12/2024 09:12

I had an amusing TERFy moment in the ladies loos at our local hospital the other day. I walked in behind another woman and heard her exclaim 'Oh, am I in the wrong ones?' to which I, being next to the door with a picture of a woman on it said 'No, this is the ladies'. A very flustered older man who was standing washing his hands then said 'Oh no, I'm in the wrong ones then. I only came in to wash my hands'. To which I said 'Well don't worry, you could just say that today you're identifying as a woman and there wouldn't be a problem', to which all three of us had a good laugh Grin

DiaAssolellat · 03/12/2024 10:10

@cheezncrackers I’ve had a few random conversations with other women in queues for the ladies’ loos in which the issue of “men identifying as women” crops up. All the women in their own way whether very politely or very bluntly say that it’s nonsense and agree that men shouldn’t be in women’s private spaces.

CarDoorWillySlam · 03/12/2024 10:41

VeronicasMonocle · 02/12/2024 08:09

This thread is equal parts heartening and depressing. Amazing to see so much support for sex realism (ie. reality) and that sanity has at least somewhat returned to the UK. Depressing because although I'm British I live in Canada and it feels completely different here. I don't feel I can even attempt to sus out if there are any fellow terfs. I work in a completely captured sector and giving even the merest suggestion that I may not be fully accepting of GI beliefs feels like career suicide. I find it hard to understand how Canadians are so bought into gender woo. They all seem utterly oblivious to any other perspectives and very much on the JKR is a fascist bigot train. It seems like Canada is years behind the UK and even with an upcoming election and the likely change to a conservative government by the end of 2025 Canadians will very much define themselves against the US (especially after Trump's win) and I can foresee anyone who considers themselves left/liberal absolutely doubling down on the gender stuff. It is very lonely.

I have name changed because of data scraping paranoia.

I am a Canadian now living in Britain. When Yaniv happened I contacted my DSis, still in Canada, and said "what the hell is going on there?" Her response was depressing: "Never heard of it. What are you talking about?" Since then I have been her source of Canadian news in the conflict between gender and sex.

Most of the outrages going on in Canada are under the radar because the news outlets were captured from the beginning. Men in women's prisons? No way! says my DSis. I did finally convince her, and some of this is coming out in Canada now, now that the population is pretty well convinced in the lie that men can be women.

An old friend visited me from Canada before lockdown and when I tried to bring up issues around GII she quickly shut me down with "I don't talk about that." Why? "I am just not interested." In all other ways she was the same well-read, curious, interesting and good humoured friend of yore. What is it about this one topic? I can't answer that.

My DSis is very very angry-- during one discussion she shed tears of frustration, but feels she cannot speak. Her partner has been disciplined at work for wrong-speak. They both just seethe quietly.

Another Canadian relative has disowned me completely because I made the 'mistake' of saying TW should not be in sports for women and girls. So I totally get your loneliness. Canadians want to be good people, accepting people, and this movement has played on that and made them the opposite.

UtopiaPlanitia · 03/12/2024 14:09

Waitwhat23 · 03/12/2024 07:33

There's an interesting concept that countries which were previously staunchly authoritarian/religious/witchburny etc go to the opposite extreme when embracing a swing to the authoritarian 'liberal/left'/TWAW side as a way to prove that they've changed. In Scotland, we've moved from being the centre of an astonishing lust for witchhunting, from enforced church attendance and a society that my mum's generation remember as extraordinarily misogynist to a country who insist, under threat of punishment, that you deny the evidence of your eyes and elsewhere and swear allegiance to the new religion of gender ideology.

That definitely sounds familiar for Ireland too - gone from being intensely theocratic Catholic country to being mega-woke as a rejection of the past and to gain international social status. Still misogynist though, didn’t give that bit up - it’s modern identity politics misogyny nowadays so that’s considered fine.

Igmum · 03/12/2024 14:13

Whereas the English were pretty idle on the witch burning front (with some dramatic exceptions). Interesting. Looks like witch burning is reformatted.

Oh and yes I'm a terf as are absolutely loads of my friends. Sadly DD18 is captured but I have hopes.

Waitwhat23 · 03/12/2024 15:03

As a complete aside, regarding the witch trials in Scotland, the University of Edinburgh put together an interactive map of all those accused - it is extraordinary and very interesting

https://information-services.ed.ac.uk/about/news/interactive-witchcraft-map

Interactive witchcraft map

New website launched visualises the data from the Survey of Scottish Witchcraft Database (1563 to 1736).

https://information-services.ed.ac.uk/about/news/interactive-witchcraft-map

LondonWeeknd · 04/12/2024 09:28

BatteryHuman50 · 01/12/2024 21:11

I'm a TERF and finding it really fucking difficult to find spaces for TERFy lesbian/bi women as a late bloomer. I suspect all the women have underground? I'm not even necessarily looking for a relationship, just somewhere where I don't have to keep quiet about agreeing with JKR.

Take a look at LGB Alliance, Get The L Out, Womens Rights Network and - although not strictly focussed on the Trans thing alone - Filia.