Is the Kink Scene a Cult? Interesting Podcast

[BelaLugosisThread]

Was I In a Cult UK Kink Scene episode

Latest episodes of the 'Was I In A Cult?' Podcast features a guest who gives a shocking account of the UK Kink Scene. She states the scene acts as a cover for coercive control and abuse and gives a horrifying example of attempts to link 'dark age players' to "Minor Attracted Persons"/ AKA paedophiles

From the comments it appears "Kink shaming" is the new hate crime as there's quite a pile on in response to these episodes. The guest provides a convincing feminist critique of this subculture and I found her story alarming. Yet it appears only 'lived experience' that fits a certain narrative is authentic as she is widely dismissed as phobic and bigoted.

Worth a listen

I was told it's the person performing the submissive role that holds the real power in the kink relationship.

Yet here is someone claiming that the existence of dommes proves that kink isn't sexist.

it's almost as though the movement is full of bullshit assertions made up to distract attention.

I think we all know that drug dependency makes you vulnerable to abuse.

People say that because after all, it's only consent if the submissive person says it is. Otherwise it is assault. I can happily allow someone to kick the shit out of me and claim it was a consensual act. I can then claim that when they spat on me, it was non-consensual because I didn't consent to spitting and therefore it's assault. And that would be legally sound. I'd just have prove that the person knew it was off limits and did it anyway and intentionally. In theory I could with a checklist and if we videoed the encounter. The checklist would go a long way unless he denied spitting at all.

Got it, so women dragging their husbands along = bad. Men dragging their wives along so they can worship Fatball's feet while hating their boring vanilla wife = good, exhilarating, emancipatory.

Do you think this is some sort of "gotcha"?

I won't be asking my DH that tonight.

Because it's something we've discussed a fair bit already. We've also discussed it with our grown up children. Because we talk about lots of stuff to do with culture, society, human behaviour, etc together as a family.

Sometimes because it's interesting, sometimes because we are figuring it out and sometimes because we want to help our children to protect themselves from the dark and dangerous side of it.

And we are all in agreement that kink, BDSM, etc are deeply patriarchal. Indeed hyper patriarchal.

The foundation of patriarchy is hierarchy. A binary hierarchy.

One group on top one group on the bottom. The top group dominates and exploits the bottom group. Sometimes individuals from the groups get mixed up and temporarily swop to the other group. But only temporarily and (importantly) only when the dominant group allows it. The status quo is not challenged or changed by this. At all. And sometimes it is actually strengthened by it as it creates an illusion of fluidity between the 2 groups.

Sound familiar?

To abusers.

There is no abuse without an abuser.

Abusers seek out all sorts of vulnerable people.

And who isn't vulnerable?

We can be vulnerable for all sorts of reasons. Because we've drunk alcohol or taken drugs, because we've experienced bad shit, because we're insecure, because we're going through a hard time, because we are human.

It is OK to be vulnerable. It is human to be vulnerable.

It is bad to prey on vulnerable people. It is bad to abuse vulnerable people.

It shouldn't need to be said but the only people responsible for abuse are those who abuse.

Again you are sounding like the cliché of the judge who blames a woman for being raped by a rapist because she was wearing a shirt skirt / went to his house / was drunk / was out late / insert misogynistic trope here / etc

A wealthy, powerful man paying a woman to spank him may give a supposed appearance of upending power relationships and dynamics.

In actuality, what changes?

@ByGentleFatball

I think we all know that drug dependency makes you vulnerable to abuse.

So does having sex with a man sexually aroused by strangling women, tbh.

Understood, but is this now conflating sex work with kink? What if it was a couple in a loving relationship, sometimes they have intimate romantic "vanilla" sex and other times have kinky play sex because they get pleasure out of it. What then?

Still nothing changes. Ultimately who knows and who cares what goes on in other peoples' sex lives

As already requested. Please stop attacking individual posters character. It's already been pointed out to you that's it's a logical fallacy. So now it looks like you're just doing it to be cruel.

The hill you're standing on to cast judgment is more a molehill then a mountain too. Experimenting with drugs, link and partying in your 20s will have a lot less consequences for your health than the 'breathplay' you indulge in. Which tool probably start seeing the effects of maybe from your 40s onwards. Ask a doctor which behaviour has less risk.

Remove the money from the equation, then.

The point is that play acting 'submission' or 'dominance' has no effect on the actual power balance, except that it may give a false impression of doing so.

Never smoked a spliff, but happy to get an imagined one over on other women by cheating in sex clubs.

I thought poly was against exactly this type of behaviour?

Also the attention of submissive men isn't worth shit.

I engaged with your point. Page search 'calling for duty'.

Switch=the possibility it's not about power play, more sensation. Depends how it's done really.

Conclusion I came to was it sex involves pain and power, it is the opposite of intimacy.

Luv. You like having your breath cut off as part of your sex games. I'd keep a very careful eye on things like my memory, brain fog etc. Oddly enough breath play was a kink I would not indulge in, as deemed it so dangerous, with invisible effects that don't start being obvious till years later.

I'd rather be aware of, and dealing with my trauma, then in denial. I really don't get the shaming of people who experienced trauma. Do you have a pop at poppy seller's for supporting the weak veterans with cPTSD, or do you just save it for women you're in some sort of mental competition with?

You're welcome to every single submissive man in the country. Makes it easier to find the ones who understand what intimacy is.

My experience is that as a scene it's ripe for manipulation by predatory men. Under the cover of 'sex positivity' and open-mindedness' they can trample over women's boundaries and get their kicks without the consequences they would get in 'normal' life. And also there's a strong insistence on 'sorting out our problems indoors' ie sorting out issues/complaints within the community and not via the law, because outsiders 'wouldn't understand'. This tactic is common also in some cults so I can see why the analogy was made. In my experience, kink sounds lovely and progressive and mutually respectful on the surface but is actually a cover for predatory men.

Saw this post a few pages back but needs to be restated. My DD was 15 when she brought up the need for a safe word. Picked up from other 15 yr old female friends spending too much time on Reddit etc.

The intentional, gradual but determined way that abusive men erode our DDs boundaries, safety and what’s ‘acceptable’ is horrifying. Aided and abetted by damaged women recruiting for validation. Typically not recognised until older and wiser. This entirely patriarchal so-called kink positivity is bullshit.

I engaged with your point in my post about patriarchy / hierarchy.

This. I'm glad you brought up the effect on teens. I recall a gruesome conversation with my exes teen son. At 17 his gf wanted him to strangle her. He could not get his mind around it. He was scared, but also his thinking was laced with a bit of mysogyny, as he thought women must naturally like pain and to be submissive. Normalising power in sex is creating an environment that is great for breeding incels, and sex terrified teens.

Thought the podcast guest made a great point about that, as she mentioned young people maybe gravitating to 'age play'. She outlined how this might be caused by a fear of actual sex (understandable, see pornhub) and a desire to be seen to have the right politics. Kink has done a great job of entangling itself with lefty politics so it can appear, equitable. It's not. It's ultimately relies on power divides within society, to remain unchallenged, as it is those power differentials that provide the object to be played with. Power in sex reinforces patriarchal power games, is does not challenge them.

The 'kinky/poly people are so open-minded and actually more caring than normies' bollocks quickly falls away when they inevitably feel the need to start on the 'hmmm acshualleh your husband is paying for my feet photos you frigid vanilla husk'. If I was as open-minded and caring as I claimed to be, I'd be feeling terrible for the wife in that scenario rather than gloating that her cheating foot sniffing partner was wanking into my Wolfords.

I know right? Regarding foot fetishes - Some men like a beautiful woman's face over grubby pink sausage toes. I swear to God the scene is so broken that these women think they have unlocked some kind of Hellraiser portal and that none of the rest of us can take a man to the pleasure she can with her shouty voice and her whip and her grubby feet. It takes a certain kind of man to enjoy the idea of travelling the road frequently travelled by other men.

They will paint women like me as vanilla and boring because the alternative is too much.. what if there are great relationships out there but they will never achieve that?

Meanwhile I'm in bed on a Saturday morning with my bloke and we are about to do a Lord of the Rings marathon. I'd much rather that than having to clean excrement and piss off a rubber sheet.

😂😂😂😂😂

"I see a lot of these normal men come into the kink scene, and for the first time, they're having conversations about the nuances of consent. For the first time, they're having their own limits tested and gain empathy with truly how difficult it can be to vocalise doubt or a total withdrawal of consent in the moment."

What lovely Disney Princesses these men are! How magical for them and you. Here is a perfect song for them.

It could also be that these guys are so broken and unshaggable by anyone healthy that they are emotionally overwhelmed that any port in a storm will have them. If it's the first time they are having conversations about consent and understanding that it matters, that is a MASSIVE RED FLAG.

Coming back to the question about is "kink" a cult.

No I don't think it is a cult as such. But I do think that there are many behaviours and psychological mechanisms that exist in both cults and in BDSM, etc.

There is definitely big style grooming that go on in both. And the notion that only the initiated can really understand. Sexual abuse of women, particularly young women are also depressingly commonplace in both.

The servicing of a man / men's desires and wishes is another common factor.

And yes, it is very concerning how exposed our young people are to this stuff in current society.

As a parent I always imagined that I would have sensible discussions with my DDs about condoms, etc. And I knew I would have conversations about not having sex that you don't really really want but I'd kinda imagined it being more about blow jobs and PIV than about strangling and beating ☹️

It's a shame my post addressing Fatball's attack on my relationship was deleted. I deserved the space to respond: