Is the Kink Scene a Cult? Interesting Podcast

[BelaLugosisThread]

Was I In a Cult UK Kink Scene episode

Latest episodes of the 'Was I In A Cult?' Podcast features a guest who gives a shocking account of the UK Kink Scene. She states the scene acts as a cover for coercive control and abuse and gives a horrifying example of attempts to link 'dark age players' to "Minor Attracted Persons"/ AKA paedophiles

From the comments it appears "Kink shaming" is the new hate crime as there's quite a pile on in response to these episodes. The guest provides a convincing feminist critique of this subculture and I found her story alarming. Yet it appears only 'lived experience' that fits a certain narrative is authentic as she is widely dismissed as phobic and bigoted.

Worth a listen

I don't doubt there are corners that could lead to culty-ness, like any intense interest but having been on the scene it's very broad, I have never met anyone with anything but disgust for paedophiles and most people find age-play kind of icky at the very least.

It can act as a cover for control and abuse, but so can marriage, so can religious observance, but those are extremes, not the norm. Most people on the scene are very careful with consent, probably more so than many in more mainstream relationships and the scene is getting much better at recognising abusers and calling them out.

So no 'the kink scene' as a whole is not a cult - also it's not most particpants' entire life, for most just a small corner of it.

@Echobelly have you listened to the podcast?

I think some of us might actually be part of the scene to some extent so we know what is fearmongering, and what are real concerns.

Many of these outsiders conflate issues to the point that their criticism has no validity.

An example I can give was of a woman who met a "Master" online and agreed to go thousands of miles across the world to meet and stay with him after signing some sort of BDSM contract with this stranger. This was a woman in her 30s or 40s! Needless to say, it went very, very wrong though she still lives in that country.

She used her experience of signing her life away to a stranger to castigate any relationship with a kink based power exchange. I think she needs mental health assistance for doing something so bloody silly yet she would say women who make rational sensible decisions to engage in kink with someone they have got to know are the damaged ones.

@ByGentleFatball She isn't an "outsider". She was part of the scene for decades.

Yes but I think you need to know the scene to see what type she could be. Some people gravitate there for really the wrong reasons and they bring unhealthy attachment issues and things like that into the relationships they form there.

Studies apparently show that mental health issues aren't more prevalent than in general society but I'd say that isn't my experience. Especially when it comes to women. I think there are a disproportionate number of women who have MHI in the kink scene. Both as subs and doms. Men are dangerous in any dating/sexual environment so they aren't much different.

My partner says I think that about the women because it's the only place where I'm around women in that context. I don't date or have sex with women so I don't see the behaviours that I see in the kink scene in vanilla dating life like he may have as a heterosexual male. In the kink scene, I get a window to it i wouldn't otherwise have.

She could be the type that everyone can always see has awful taste in partners, can't spot a red flag if its wrapped around her face, and is trying to fill some emotional void through a kinky relationship because it seems to validate co-dependence. That's the type of person who usually starts these Kink Is Bad campaigns.

'Consent' is not enough. People consent to things they don't like, don't agree with, to please others. Exploring what you want/like is necessary - and honesty in that discussion, too.

@ByGentleFatball ahhh judge a woman on a podcast you've not even listened to and dismiss her as mad/ bad? OK.
I thought on the feminist board there might be some engagement with the critique she presented.

She actually spoke at length about the part damage and trauma play in the scene. Also how transactional models of consent are flawed.

So let me get this right, on a feminist thread, you're having a pop at someone calling out their experience of an abusive community, for being too abused? Wow. Just. Wow.

Yes but in kink, we have these conversations. Not many people really talk about coercion and consent in vanilla relationships. A lot of women have undesired sex to keep a marriage afloat for instance. Many people stay in unhappy relationships because they lack the means to leave and are scared of the repercussions of leaving. Everything from murder to parental alienation to poverty.

These things aren't readily discussed by the average vanilla couple whereas these kinds of forward thinking conversations are encouraged in healthy kink circles.

It's my experience in kink that leads me to believe a first date is the perfect time to discuss who wants kids or marriage whereas my vanilla "training" told me that you'd come across as creepy and desperate if you raised it at all.

I'm saying that my experience of being in the scene has meant that I have seen what actually happens vs what some person in the media says is happening.

@ByGentleFatball The person on the podcast is no more "some person in the media" than you are. She was sharing her experiences and deconstructing them through a feminist lens

I'm sorry but you're not making a great deal of sense. Your experience counts, but the person in the podcasts does not? You also know you're posting on social media? So are also part of the 'media?'.

She's got a podcast...

Annnd I just saw who it is.... lol this woman was well known and ousted from the kink community because of her actions. She's not okay. That's why she has so many comments against her. Especially from women in the scene. Literally won't comment on this again because I could well be doxxed by her.

She fits my earlier description though 🚩

So an anonymous GUEST on a podcast is clearly identifiable as some scene red flag? Discount the valid feminist observations she makes.

I saw Goody Proctor with the devil...

I can't comment yet, but thanks for the link. I'll listen later.

I have hardly any experience of the kink scene but I don't see why this community should be any more immune to the effects of the patriarchy than any other. Patriarchal systems seem to be geared towards men's access to sex and women's bodies, so why should this be any different?

'Cult' is a fairly ill-defined term, but it will be interesting to hear how they make a case for that.

I read an article some time ago about one young woman's experience within the kink community and it was a very mixed bag of strong respect for consent on the surface but an underlying expectation you would be sex positive enough to consent to most things. I wish I could remember where I saw it and link to it! But, as other have said, just one person's anecdotal experience.

Her name is Amelia King. I know her by first name and kink scene name. Didn't know she was a King as such.

I've read some quite disturbing things from women involved in sub/dom type situations, saying that the reason they felt "comfortable" being dominated was due to having experienced CSA. It doesn't sound particularly mentally healthy to me. Obviously I am not criticising any woman who is in this situation, but I personally feel that a mutually respectful sexual relationship where both partners are equal and there is no replaying of past abuse, is more conducive to good mental health.
Disclaimer: I have been lucky to not have experienced CSA so can't speak from personal experience

I know she is now because your link gives her name.

Have you considered that some women are sexually dominant over men? People always assume that women are ONLY submissive. Some aren't submissive at all!

@ByGentleFatball it said in episode 2 she was using a pseudonym

Yeah she isn't. I know her voice and she used the name on the scene. Well it might be a pseudonym but it's one she uses often. The kink scene is really quite compact and Fetlife makes it much smaller.

No, I don't assume that, but this is on the feminist board, so we're discussing how women are affected
The same would apply to male CSA survivors who feel they need to "replay" their horrific childhood experiences as adults

You can't be thinking about kinky women if you assume they are all submissive and therefore all have the same vulnerabilities. Dominant women have different risks on the scene to submissive ones. People just never consider that we exist in their anti-kink campaigns.

All the reasons they give for kink being wrong assume that the woman is sexually submissive to a dominant man. They forget queer couples and as I said, dominant women with submissive male partners. That's why it's best we sort our own problems and hold our own discussions. Which we do. It's just when someone has been expelled from the community, they're no longer welcome to speak on such platforms.

@Flustration be interested to hear your thoughts when you've listened. Actually the thoughts of anyone who's listened to the podcast. Rather than some bizarre "that's the bogeyman. I know her. I know that pseudonym. I recognise that voice" derail

It v much does look at the scene as a product of the patriarchy. Touches upon the false dichotomy of sex positive/ prude. Lots of relevant talking points for a feminist board

So really your "feminist" approach to this is painfully inaccurate and short sighted because the priority is speaking about (bad) men rather than (all) women. That isn't feminist, it's a gender war.