US Election results

[IwantToRetire]

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

Anyone who is dumbfounded at the election result is usually one of those people too. I could see it coming. I know someone who voted for Trump. He's a decent working class man. I don't agree with him but I don't think his reasons are wrong and he's bad. He doesn't like Trump as a person, for him it's a Republican vote and a 'least worst' option for him and his family.

Honestly been quite horrified at the attitudes of middle class people I previously thought of as intelligent. Very close to saying working class people shouldn't have the right to vote because they vote the 'wrong way' (I.e. don't do as they're told by their betters).

I hope he reinstates sex based rights and sport without being cruel to trans identifying people.

I'm not sure he's got it in him.

"Very close to saying working class people shouldn't have the right to vote because they vote the 'wrong way' (I.e. don't do as they're told by their betters)."

Yeah, which is ironically something Musk and Thiell subscribe too as well. Its a mess.

For those believing the only or main thing that matters in a leader is acknowledgment that sex matters and can't be changed, do you also support Putin and think that his opinion on sex is more important than anything else?

I hope Starmer is dismayed, and will take this into account going forward. Now Kermi is leader of the Tories, Labour are in real danger of only having four years in power, so a u-turn on the trans stuff needs to happen pretty damn quick.

Ultimately this is why it is counterproductive to say that voters are stupid.

For two reasons, really.

1. Nobody, and I mean, absolutely nobody, likes being told that they are stupid. Even if they are stupid, they don't like being told that they are, and so their natural response will be to do whatever is most likely to piss off the person or people who called them stupid.
2. Unless you are advocating for a system where people have to pass some sort of intelligence test in order to be allowed to vote (in which case I think you're more of a threat to society than the average stupid person), a stupid person's vote is as good as yours. So it doesn't actually matter whether they are stupid or not. What matters is how they vote. So you can talk nicely to them and maybe convince them of your point of view, or you can call them stupid and all but ensure that they cast their vote in the way you think is stupid, just to piss you off. (See 1 above.) And if you do that, perhaps you're the stupid one.

Yes, she had her children later, but having a child did revolutionise her thinking about things. (I had my first child at 19, and then two more before I was 27. I went back and did my degree when my youngest started school, and then did further professional training once my two youngest started school).

Personally think Harringtom is interesting because she's not frightened to explore and push beyond the boundaries of 'acceptable' progressive thought, and take risks in doing so. She doesn't always hit the right note, but I think she does ask very interesting questions and her perceptions ring true. Like her, I was a left wing activist in my youth - but have now come to critique a lot of that ( like a number of women on this board)

Yes exactly. It’s what we kept saying here about Labour. No one really believes it’s possible to change sex so politicians peddling this are either fools or far more realistically liars

and if they’ll lie about something as basic as whether ppl can change sex what else will they lie about

I don't think anyone thinks that is the only issue...but for many who have come to prioritise this issue ( Gender Ideology) above many other issues, it has also led to them questioning many other formerly held convictions and positions too. So, it is not that simple.

I've come to realise, for example, that the over-emphasis on openness and lack of borders and boundaries transcends just one area or policy issue. And like you? I live in a city which clings to its radical socialist credentials, but I also see those principles have not served the city or its people well at all.

Yep, that's a good comment, and true. My DH is very upset and depressed today. He's in a sulk as I predicted this, I knew Trump would win and trying to explain the reasons to him he just didn't get it.

I've said before, but he's still in the reading Reddit, Guardian, BBC, all the news sources I used to read until I woke up to the harm they were doing to women and girls by forcing people to lie about scientific fact.

Trump is an awful candidate but all of the Americans who voted for him are not stupid fascists or evil. I mean, by the law of averages, some of them will be. It's not that the democrats lost, it's that (like with Clinton) they still don't understand why they lost. Already blaming it on their choice of VP?

No, it's not that. It's deeper than that. Same with Brexit over here. I voted remain and was very upset with the result at the time but what made me more upset afterwards was the venom that spouted from other remainers calling all Brexit voters evil, thick etc etc. I knew Brexit voters, of course I did. They weren't evil or thick. This black and white view of the world is not healthy.

Levine was an odious child harming creep. He was allowed to remain in office in a position of power in democrat circles. Anyone protesting was seen as a bigot. If that's the people the Democrats wanted to side with OF COURSE that was going to be an issue come the election.

"Misogynists to the left of me, misogynists to the right, here I am stuck in the middle..." (With apologies to Steelers wheel for changing the lyrics). But it's true.

Oh and also, Trump is an odious human being too. The best to hope for is that he doesn't last his term, he (like Biden) has been looking pretty frail recently.

Personally, also thinks there needs to be a halt to the gender affirmation medical business, especially when it comes to children. I'm sure some, though, will see that as cruel.

I think with Brexit everyone on the Remain side went through various stages of denial etc. I do think socia media (and I am a hypocrite obviously because this is social media) meant everyone was broadcasting their knee jerk emotional responses in real time rather than sitting with them. Which didn't help with political divisiveness.

I agree! But the trans lobby will see it as cruel because they are sold on the idea that Gender identity is real and more important than sex.

I know someone who voted for Trump. He's a decent working class man.

And I'll bet he treats his wife with respect an not like the default maid/nanny

/s

Unlike Trump, Harris is not a convicted felon. There are many reasons why she was the better candidate but that one should be enough.

Agreed.

There are two different things at play for me:

1. I fully accept that there are people who believe "we all have a gender identity". To these people, it's not a lie when they say that a male person is a woman if that's their gender identity. It's a belief. It's no more a lie than a Christian who says that immaculate conception and virgin birth is possible because of Mary and Jesus.

2. it becomes a federally-led lie when it's adopted in law as sex change. Nobody can change sex. Saying that they can is a lie. The belief is about gender (identity). Sex is a matter of biological reality, whereas gender (identity) is a matter of cultural belief. When the two get muddled up, it can create a lie because the law ends up determining that it's actually possible to change sex e.g. the GRA in the UK or men being able to self-ID as women under Title IX in the US and therefore access women's sports grants and competitions. Sex and gender identity need to be kept separate in legislation, so that believers can have certificates that validate their gender (if it serves a purpose to do this**) but also so that these certificates don't actually change anything that is factually true e.g. it shouldn't allow their sex to be changed on their birth certificate or passport. They can have a separate field for gender identity instead.

** Personally I think it's as much use as a certificate of zodiac signs but if it helps adults with gender dysphoria to have a certificate which "validates" their gender, so be it. I personally think it's pointless.

Re the US election, I'm appalled at Trump as a person. I think he's a ticking time bomb of international disaster and has a low regard for women (other than as sex objects). He's clumsy and likely to cause all sorts of diplomatic issues over Ukraine and other world pinch points. His likely capitulation to his donors' views on abortion rights speaks volumes about how little he really cares about women having rights. When he walked out to the song "this is a man's world" earlier this year, it summed him up beautifully: don't worry ladies, I'll support you because we need you right behind us so that we men can get on with doing the important stuff. FFS.

However, I agree with the "silver lining" points raised about Rachel Levine and the protection of women's sports. Thankfully, the US has a tradition of advocating for fair play in sports, so it ends up as a default win for women's rights in a limited capacity i.e. more of a happy coincidence than anything else. But it's still a win. Plus Vance is calling out the homophobia in gender identity belief, so this is also a silver lining. The recent podcast he did with Joe Rogan was great on this subject.
Also it's a win for the children and vulnerable young adults who are currently still being drawn in to the medical scandal that's associated with gender identity belief.

Edited for clarity and to correct typos.

A lot of young men think that the Democrats and people like Harris think men are a problem, or at best, offer nothing for men. Which isn't really wrong, they push I'd politics big time and men are explicitly bottom of the heap within that framework.

Policy wise the things they are interested in tend to be having a good job, keeping their taxes fairly low, and they tend to prefer not to increase gun control laws.

They see Harris as being for higher taxes, not having much to say about good jobs and being more interested in handouts, and being likely to increase gun control.

So they just don't see anything there for them.

True. It's dreadful for women either way.

The Democrats need to take a long hard look at their succession planning. This is basic stuff for any organisation.

They also might want to review the assumptions they make about voters, rather than reminding them it's their duty to vote correctly. This just doesn't work any more.

I'm surprised Trump didn't make more of the My Speshull White House Certificate Harris (as VP) sent to an out of work actor who'd been larping as a "girl" on TikTok for a year. I mean, fucking hell.

He does actually. He's lovely. Works hard, she cooks the meals and he does the dishes. It's their choice and there is a lot of mutual respect and laughter. They pull together as a team far more so than many I know with Dem voting husbands. I have no clue how she voted!

The trans lobby call anything that isn’t full capitulation to their desires ‘cruel’

I'm not sure where you see this is a thing being supported widely among Republican voters?

There are a lot of women in politics and business who are Republicans, or men who are married to such women.

Wow, what a dumbass. As opposed to the choice of the least popular VP, who couldn't win the nomination even in her own state when she tried.

Sure, it was the VP choice!

In terms of women being able to prioritise having children, it is important to remember how different the US and UK are in terms of maternity rights - We can take a year maternity leave and then return to work, in the US they are entitled to just two weeks.