US Election results

[IwantToRetire]

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

The fact that you are asking this as if it's unlikely to be the case says a lot about your thinking about working class men, and it's not dissimilar to how the Democrats are perceived generally.

And that's got a lot to do with why they don't find the Democrats compelling.

Apparently ‘threat to democracy’ was one of the main drivers at the exit polls. The democrats thought that meant support for them, the voters thought otherwise.

The best to hope for is that he doesn't last his term, he (like Biden) has been looking pretty frail recently.

I think Trump is likely to fall ill, die or be declared unfit for the job during his tenure.

Does anyone know what a Vance presidency would mean? And who would be the new vice president?

Trump was president before and didn't send trans people to camps or stop them existing?

I also have concerns that the Republicans will row back on gender affirming medicine in a punitive way. Cutting people off without adequate support will create more problems. I'm actually concerned that this is happening in the UK where people are finding their GPs won't prescribe cross-sex hormones any more. I can believe that people are deluded to think becoming a simulacra of the opposite sex will solve their mental health problems while at the same time believing they should be given appropriate support when government policy changes. Trans identifying people are much more likely to suffer mental health issues so government changes need a support strategy.

I could have written this, and I know a lot of women who are in the same boat. There must be lots in the US too.

My DH is upset today too. He's so pro Harris, yet has not supported me in having a career and has not only left me to do the vast bulk of the childcare and housework since we had children but has not valued the unpaid work I do. Honestly that's the hardest bit for me - the lack of value and lack of acknowledgement. Being so left wing he certainly talks the talk on women's rights (one of the reasons I married him!). Sadly when it comes to the reality children bring it doesn't translate. I'd say my Trump supporting male friend is the bigger feminist in the real world in ways that matter. Yes, he and his wife have more traditional values but they're also more equal in their marriage. I've noticed this is true for a lot of left leaning men. Rightwing men can be very shitty too of course, but not more so than leftwing men in my experience and the former is at least less gaslighty (not sure if that's a word?!). There's something very unpleasant in only realizing the talk of female empowerment is all bollocks when you're knee deep in nappies.

Isn't there a saying that the right want women to be owned by one man and the left want women to be owned by all men? Or something along those lines. Neither is a good choice for women.

Correct.

And as nobody is suggesting that trans(-identified) people should be sent to camps or stopped from existing, this is still unlikely to happen under a Republican government. Despite Trump's general demeanor on lots of different matters and his clumsy approach to policy making in general.

Surely it's a good thing that GPs are pulling back on prescribing cross-sex hormones?

GPs should prescribe based on medical research and evidence. Hopefully the review of adult gender services will course-correct this, looking at a holistic approach to healthcare in a similar way to the Cass Report.

The prescription of cross-sex hormones is linked to an affirmation pathway and patient-led decision making. Obviously patients should be making decisions about their own healthcare but these need to be fully informed decisions - without an adequate evidence base, they can't be.

In the US this will play out in the courts, as more detransitioners step forward to sue within the statute of limitations. Prisha Moseley's case is an important trailblazer on this. Unfortunately most regret seems to happen later than the permitted timescales for suing but this will undoubtedly come forward as more people realise that their early feelings of post-operative doubt are indications that they regret their decision, not just feelings to be suppressed.

But to your point, yes: much better support is needed from GPs and wider mental health services for those who suffer from feelings of gender dysphoria and for those who then go on to regret their decisions. Obviously not everyone who takes cross-sex hormones or has surgery will regret it. But continuing to hand out cross-sex hormones without an evidence base that says it's likely to help patients is not the way to do it....so the only logical approach is for GPs to stop prescribing them and all of it to fall under gender services within a wider mental health approach.

Trans identifying people are much more likely to suffer mental health issues so government changes need a support strategy.

Agreed.

This is very interesting. I can completely see how voters might come to the conclusion that the Democrats identify as being pro democracy or pro women's rights but that their actions suggest they're lying.

It also suggests the jobs of maid or nanny are something to be looked down upon. Both jobs are probably better and more essential for humanity than political pundits and a lot of women enjoy raising their / other people's children and wish this work was better valued as the difficult job it is and not just some kind of crappy shitwork.

No. Is says a lot how I feel about men, particularly those who vote for Trump. I couldn't give a hoot what class they belong too?

Yep, me too. This is a much better way of summing up what I was trying to say earlier.

Yes, the US has freedom of speech in its 1st amendment, but this is pointless if actions can circumvent it, such as men being allowed to identify in to women's sports or children being taken off parents if those parents are concerned about their gender questioning children being given access to puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones. The Democrats have consistently shown themselves to be untrustworthy and undemocratic by enforcing things like this, either at state or federal level. Plus the use of state taxes for gender affirming/reassignment surgery and placing of men who identify as women in the state prison system. That Kamala Harris herself says she's proud of changing laws in California to support this says a lot about this too.

Yes I thought it was interesting that the democrats thought this a good sign, when it could easily apply to Trump supporters

I thought a while back we'd see sex start to come back over gender as the right moved on other issues eg immigration

It probably wouldn't get a win alone but together we might see the reversal of gender ideology. The US with Trump will be pretty powerful at setting a new direction

What a surprise that "Trump is completely crazy!" doesn't work as a strategy when voters can see you the next day saying "yes some men are women now"

If you're going to run on a platform of sanity, probably try and look sane would have been a good starting point. I don't believe that gender ideology sways a large amount of votes in and of itself but I think it should be obvious that it allows many millions of normal people to see that the Democrats/left can also be completely loopy, rendering your main attack strategy of "we're the sensible ones" null and void.

I can see that the election was only "stealable" due to the utter corruption and degradation of American voting if the Dems had won. Now that the Repubs have, toit turns out the corrupted voting was an exaggeration. Who'd have thought?

Exactly!

Hopefully Starmer is slowly realising what an idiot he sounds like.

Come on Sir Keir, wakey wakey. Please stop your nonsense on the conversion therapy bill for starters, then sort out Bridget Phillipson's woeful approach to the school to gender clinic pipeline. Yes, please do ask Tony Blair what your opinion should be if you don't understand what Rosie Duffield and others have been telling you all along.

If you thought it was different to dislodge Biden when he was clearly unfit the Trump will be another level. He will go out in a box.

I think the thing for me is the Democrats see themselves in a different way to voters: they believed they were truetellers and honest, whilst at the same time asking that we ignore the reality of sex and saying for months on end that Biden was fit for office.

But to the electorate in the middle in many respects they didn't see a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. They saw them both as liars in different ways.

So it then comes down to other cultural issues and priorities.

Ultimately we have an ongoing issue with quality of life decline and increasing prices being the thing that the majority of people most have contact with on a daily basis.

And like Brexit this then becomes a grievance type vote for the swing voters - it's not about the more polarised stuff. It's about punishing for not delivering what was promised four years earlier.

For me, I think it was apparent four years ago what the election issues this time would be - but the Democrats didn't tackle them. Indeed I'd argue that these issues were predictable to a degree in 2016 if the Democrats did get Trump out. But the Democrats haven't had that period of self reflection and humility to identify some of this. And they should have.

I would argue that Labour should very much be looking over their shoulders and taking on board what's going on in the US now because in five years time they might have a tougher time than they should.

In the meantime, the Canadian government should be looking south and taking notes.

The whole election rigged thing was just a social media driven way to get the vote out rather than needing door knockers and phone calls.

Add the visuals of
"There's nothing wrong with Biden he's perfectly capable" to the mix too.

The lies on that made even the most committed Democrats cringe and concerned because it was so obviously untrue.

This raised all sorts of questions about who was in charge and actually running the country.

This of course will raise questions about democracy in there is this unseen and unnamed team literally proping up and elderly man and telling him what to say.

@TempestTost “A lot of young men think that the Democrats and people like Harris think men are a problem, or at best, offer nothing for men. Which isn't really wrong, they push I'd politics big time and men are explicitly bottom of the heap within that framework.”

I see it rather as the whole thing is to facilitate men. Men also facilitating other men. Men who experience a special ‘happiness’ from saying they are not men. Top down in a Trojan horse. So, opportunities for women and girls are sacrificed. Comfort and safety for women, even in prison, compromised so that have to be locked up with special men who want it to be so.

No, the big losers, and bottom of the pile in this are women and children.

The Democrats need to take a long hard look at their succession planning. This is basic stuff for any organisation.

Absolutely agree @Beowulfa. They have a history of good people hanging on far too long and not mentoring and bringing on the next generation of strong leaders. Pelosi, Clinton, Ginsburg, Biden, all symptoms of the same problem. Planning should have started in earnest after Obama won his second term in 2012. Its almost like they thought Obama was so perfect as a candidate that no one else could ever measure up, so why bother.

My perspective is that Harris was not a particularly inspiring candidate but she respects the Constitution. Trump is proven to not respect it all. I find it hard to understand the American conservatives of my acquaintance, who hold the Constitution as almost sacred, voting for Trump on that basis. My thinking is that Trump is very likely to do things that undermine democracy in America and that is far more damaging to everyone, because he will set precedents that allow more competent fascists to take power and do even more damage in the future. It’s like the prequel to every dystopian science fiction movie is about to happen for real.

On that basis, yes I was prepared to accept that American women would have to fight hard for single sex facilities under a Harris presidency but at least they’d still have a democracy in which they and their children could campaign. I used to agree with Churchill quote about “Americans always do the right thing…eventually” and have more faith that the country would right itself, but now I’m not so confident.

Thank you for explaining the process Royal, I had assumed that a voting machine option was pushing buttons on a screen and no paper ballot was involved. Congrats on voting for the first time!

If you thought it was different to dislodge Biden when he was clearly unfit the Trump will be another level. He will go out in a box.

Biden is still President. He hasn’t gone anywhere despite the clear cognitive decline. He is still commander in Chief. He is serving out his term unless he ‘goes out in a box’. The democrats may have recognised he couldn’t stand again but they have kept him in place.

I've just had a discussion with my husband about Labour. He still thinks the 'trans issue' isn't a major voting point. I disagreed and pointed to the Republican's heavy investment in advertising on this issue in swing states. I am a Labour supporter but they still don't get how poisonous this ideology is.

Why don't you just have paper ballots? Much simpler. Am I correct in thinking a ballot paper has more than one election on it? In the UK when this happens (examples would be a general election at the same time as council elections) we have separate ballot papers - and separate boxes or different coloured papers.