US Election results

[IwantToRetire]

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

Identity politics is a poison even without genderism. It divides people; it paints them as good or bad based on things they can't control. It repels people who might otherwise have supported left-wing causes.

I see myself as fairly left-wing, but find the American progressive left quite irritating. They're so puritanical. They claim empathy but are in fact incredibly narrow in their outlook.

Genderism is the cherry on the cake, it's been a gift to the right wing who've seized on it because it makes the left look bad. All they've got to do is point at some man in women's sports, or some girl with mastectomy scars from an unnecessary operation, or drag queens leering next to little kids, and they're onto a winner.

Identity politics has always been more of a thing in the US than here and probably always will be. Its part of the culture, and also I think encouraged by the way their polling works. But yes, the focus on hyper-identity politics is harmful and I think a reaction to feeling out of control/under threat - its easy to retreat into a little echo chamber. It was always there but it became much more of a feature after Trump got elected last time. Trump voters have their own issues. Hopefully this time instead of retreating down unhelpful ideological cul de sacs there will be a proper period of soul searching and working out what the left is for. There is no reason that can't happen. At the very least I would hope that here (in the UK) it starts to encourage a more thoughtful type of politics. Its happened before - the bloody outcome of the French Revolution encouraged the UK Conservative party to sort themselves out and try to address the growing resentments in the UK.

Purity spirals

There have always been and will continue to be purity spirals. What would be far more powerful is people setting their egos aside and looking for the commonality, the middle of the Venn, rather than absolute agreement on the "best way" to be "GC". There is no best way, there are just lots of different ways and a number of common goals e.g. a) stopping men from identifying in to women's sports and spaces and b) stopping children and vulnerable young people from being pulled in to a pathway of medical harm.

Great post.

I did press the thank you button but it disappeared. That's been happening to lots of my thank yous (but not all) on MN in the last couple of weeks. Odd.

Is it too optimistic to think that Labour could look at the Dems' poor showing, and reflect that (amongst other things) the American public weren't impressed with identity politics, including genderism? There was/is surely a lot of resentment in the US about BLM, say, and not all of that is racist loons.

..but for many who have come to prioritise this issue ( Gender Ideology) above many other issues, it has also led to them questioning many other formerly held convictions and positions too. So, it is not that simple.

Agree. As a lifelong lefty, it's really made me rethink my blind adherence to certain things I previously held dear. And I've come to appreciate the value of The House of Lords, free speech, made me question whether pp objecting to mass immigration are actually ' bigots', the importance of shared values and a unifying culture, and taking pride in your own country.

And telling the truth. So many people seem to have sold their soul and ignored the evidence of their own eyes, which I find utterly chilling.

At least one Labour MP thinks they lost because they didn’t listen to the Gaza protestors enough (the same MP who thinks Taliban culture is equally valid). Apparently the democrats lost because they weren’t far left enough so people voted further right instead…

https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1854101131862868143

Yeah, well, Zarah Sultana... 🙄

The counting is by the machine as far as I understand so I think it will be simpler.
UK has under 50 million voters and the US has around 200 million I think. Lot more volume.

When I started this thread I thought the process of finding out who had won would take much longer that it actually did! So following votes for 24 of 26 hours seemed likely. How wrong I was.

Much as I am invested in fighting for women's sex based rights, I have no believe that this was a major factor for voters in this election that it was in the UK GE. We might want it to be, but it is not a priority for most of the population.

Trump and other republicans may be "anti trans" but it doesn't make them pro women rights because they come from a re-actionary position ie they are "anti trans" because they are "anit woke".

From exit interviews it was / is the economy.

I had thought that on paper at least, the economy under Biden was improving, but if it was, most people weren't feeling it. And rightly or wronglly believe that Trumps policies will improve how wealthy they feel. Many people said that under Trump's last presidency they felt better off.

And that ironically, because he had been president before some no longer thought him "unsitable" etc.. More like a favourite uncle who always says "unacceptable" things, but otherwise is okay.

Even Latino (is that the acceptable term?) felt able to overlook terrible comments because they thought his business orientated approach was preferrable to the more "socialist" Democratic approach.

Some of the commentators said the result was a victory for the angry young white men who felt overlooked and denigrated by the Democrats. Although as seems to be usual more men are republican.

Its a bit like when the Red Wall turned Blue. No amount of London / Washington correct talk and policies, compensates those who feel left out and ignored.

I did think because there seemed so much activism, that more women would vote Democrat because of the terrible outcome from Roe vs Wade being over turned. But apparently not enough. 55% Democrat 45% Republican.

Quite detailed breakdown (but presumably subject to change) of who voted, by sex, age, race etc..

See image below (click to enlarge) and more details (readable) at
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls

Kamala Harris 223 - Electoral College (43%)
47.5% popular vote
67,059,475 popular votes

Donald Trump 291 - Electoral College (57%)
51.0% popular vote
71,905,26 popular votes

270 to win - Electoral College
(there are 538 in total so another 24 to be announced?)

6/11/2024 @ 19:00 GMT

Both Jill Stein and Robert Kennedy (I thought he'd withdrawn) just over 600,000 and dont get any Electoral votes, so no issue that Indpendents influenced the outcome.

Unless, a result in any state where they ran, was really close I suppose.

I listened to The Rest Is Politics US' reaction podcast earlier.

Anthony Scaramucci, who is admittedly a registered Republican but supported the Harris campaign because he loathes Trump, was really clear that a Trump voter would be looking at men in women's sports, bathrooms etc - and Democrats calling anyone who objected a bigot - as a major issue.

And he phrased it exactly like that, and neither he nor Katty Kay did an Alistair Campbell and bloviated about how luckily all those bigoted people would die soon. He said Democrats needed to learn to listen.

The very lefty academic FiveThirtyEight, OTOH, didn't mention the issue at all despite the vast sums spent on advertising etc. Interesting.

I'm sure Trump must have picked up a few votes from 'soccer moms' who didn't want their daughters playing soccer, or volleyball, or anything else, against men.

I think they did lose votes from the people upset about Palestine. They also lost votes from Jewish people who were upset that there were anti-zionist/anti-semitic elements in the party. If they had taken a harder line either way (condemning Israel or vowing unconditional support and purging the squad) they would have lost even more votes. People are really divided on the issue and feel really strongly about it. On the other hand, Trump could basically play both sides because the normal rules don't apply to him.
I do think the Democrats messed up. But I also think they were in a very weird and difficult situation going up against Trump's post truth thing.

Russian interference probably 😉

Ha!

Must be.

Also I probably didn't press the button well enough, so what looked like an affirmative "thanks" at the point when I did it wasn't actually recognised as a dimpled chad by the MN back end system. Therefore it didn't count when it should have done and the whole thing is rigged, blah blah.
I'm also now wondering if Hilary Clinton sent a record of my thanks to her personal email address.

(So many US election fun moments to choose from to explain this 🙃)

I know the Democrats messed up in terms of sorting out who should stand for in the election. Both Parties seem quite stuck. I mean did the Republicans chose Trump or did he just impose himself on them?!

But part of me wonder if Biden's VP had been a white male who had to take up the Presidential race quite late, would they have done better.

ie even allowing for policy difference, whether the fact of having a woman president did influence how some viewed voting Democrat.

You can't think it wasn't a factor. As for Trump imposing himself on the GOP, I think he's got all his placemen in position now, and pretty much wiped out any opposition from inside the Republican Party for a while. All the previous Trump haters are siding with him now. Didn't Vance once compare him to Hitler?

@IwantToRetire

I think it probably depends on why the white bloke got on the ticket - Kamala wasn't really much of a strong candidate for VP, tbh. She really hadn't proven her electoral success in a significant way. And she wasn't very visible as VP either. I honestly think it is, to a degree at least, a merit thing.

Honestly.
Yes.

Why?
Because 'wokeism' has been so fundamental to the identity of individuals and so ingrained into how they think things should be done.

The whole thing needs a shakedown in terms of it's become the priority rather than a consideration at the expense of all else.

The voting public want jobs, food and housing (and in this country at least healthcare). That's it. With those things security and crime fall into place.

But we've had a decline in living standards.

I don't necessarily think it's a vote FOR Trump, but a vote against declining living standards and a frustration that these basics are being overlooked.

We've seen this pattern before and we'd be ill advised to ignore it because there is only so many election cycles that works for.

For me the Dems were never going to win this election because they never addressed these points when they were elected four years ago. People were talking in these terms.

The thing with Labour is surprisingly few people voted FOR them. Their numbers in terms of the popular vote and % of vote were not great at all. Labour will struggle to win from an incumbent position if they don't take this seriously.

The numbers just aren't there for them.

I think what in fact is going to be more significant if the Republicans are the majority in both Houses.

Presidents can thwarted in achieving what they want, if they cant get it passed by Congress.

Although maybe where there might be conflicts.

I've never been clear whether Trump is actually a Republican, or really he is just more about making himself the CEO of the biggest company in the world!

The far left in US politics possibly lost the Dems votes from the centre and those who decided not to vote for Harris because she wasn't lefty enough should have just voted for Trump and had done with it.

The US public do not like this stuff.

Had they been sensible and said to Biden you shouldn't stand for another term, and set about finding someone, but surely once he was in post and then (a bit late) stood down, they really could only choose the VP.

How could they have said to the VP sorry you aren't good enough to stand of Presidential Election, even though we said you could be VP and in an emergency have to stand in for the President.

So it goes a long way back.

I am sure merit comes into it, but just as a reactionary white bloke is allowed to be a reactionary white bloke and not be dismissed I think women, let alone Black women aren't given that leeway.