Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wes Streeting backs the Darlington nurses

225 replies

Zahariel · 27/10/2024 20:13

https://x.com/CConcern/status/1850476023986401648

”BREAKING: The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Wes Streeting, has this week met with the Darlington nurses and said he is committed to the belief that sex is biological being reflected in the day-to-day running of the NHS under his watch. The nurses, who are being supported by the Christian Legal Centre, also handed in a CitizenGo petition signed by 48,000 people to Number 10 Downing Street calling for the government to do whatever is necessary to ensure women have access to single-sex changing rooms and toilets. The meeting followed a statement Mr Streeting made in the lead up to the General Election in June when he said on X/Twitter that he was ‘horrified’ by their case and wanted to meet. Mr Streeting gave the response after the nurses launched legal action against County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust over being forced to share a changing room with a man identifying as a woman. Darlington nurse, and President of the DNU, Bethany Hutchison, said: “We were nervous going into the meeting, but he put us at ease, gave us time and listened, which was encouraging. We now, however, need to see firm action from Wes and a clear consensus from the government and the NHS on these issues. “Sadly, we continue to be treated appallingly by the Trust. The policy they have in place is putting women at risk and is open to abuse and should be changed urgently. We have been shocked, however, to find that the ‘rights’ of a man identifying as a woman continue to be supported and promoted, while ours as women have been ignored and even pushed out. “We are not doing this just for nurses. We are doing this for women across the country, for example those who are working in the police force, but also for sisters, daughters and mothers everywhere.”

x.com

https://x.com/CConcern/status/1850476023986401648

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/11/2024 08:48

borntobequiet · 09/11/2024 08:37

A Unison spokesman said the union was not involved in the employment tribunal case and it would not be appropriate to comment on it.

Unison is a disgrace.

Not involved because unison would wholly be on the side of the man in the case not the women

borntobequiet · 09/11/2024 08:59

Oh yes - what I meant.

334bu · 09/11/2024 08:59

Thank you for share token.

MelodyMalone · 09/11/2024 10:10

I see the Times article says "Rose has been approached for comment."

Has he ever said anything publicly?

It's hard for me to imagine the mindset of a person who, knowing that they are causing others to (at the least) feel uncomfortable and (at the most) experience severe distress, doesn't say "OK, I didn't realise I'd have this effect, I'll change somewhere else." That's what a decent person with genuine motivations would do. If the descriptions of his behaviour are accurate, he is not such a person.

It can't be easy being at the centre of a media storm but this is all on him.

lcakethereforeIam · 09/11/2024 10:28

There's a nurse in Fife who is also going through this. Her employer is trying to have the case heard in secret. Health is devolved in Scotland, I believe. If the Darlington nurses win I don't know how or if it will affect the Fife case.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/11/2024 12:21

Yes, I think we have a thread about her too. Will try to find the link and post it here.

HerImpeccableRightnessLoobiJee · 09/11/2024 14:44

lcakethereforeIam · 09/11/2024 10:28

There's a nurse in Fife who is also going through this. Her employer is trying to have the case heard in secret. Health is devolved in Scotland, I believe. If the Darlington nurses win I don't know how or if it will affect the Fife case.

Equality law and employment law aren’t devolved though, are they?

So the Darlington nurses case, if it is heard first, should set a precedent (subject to any Employment Appeal Tribunal) for Scotland too.

TempestTost · 09/11/2024 15:14

Is Streeting setting himself up to succeed Starmer?

He seems to have more political sense.

I don't personally find the "I was wrong, I changed my mind and apologized" enough. It's great in and of itself, and in these cases where it was a personal action an apology says a lot.

But what I would really be interested is an explanation of the authoritarian behaviour of trying to shut down discussion within the party. Because to me, that is really key, it's why the LP has been so fucked up, they have not allowed this contentious issue to be properly dealt with within the party.

And I wonder, would he behave the same way over other issues where he thinks he's right?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/11/2024 16:51

TempestTost · 09/11/2024 15:14

Is Streeting setting himself up to succeed Starmer?

He seems to have more political sense.

I don't personally find the "I was wrong, I changed my mind and apologized" enough. It's great in and of itself, and in these cases where it was a personal action an apology says a lot.

But what I would really be interested is an explanation of the authoritarian behaviour of trying to shut down discussion within the party. Because to me, that is really key, it's why the LP has been so fucked up, they have not allowed this contentious issue to be properly dealt with within the party.

And I wonder, would he behave the same way over other issues where he thinks he's right?

You'd hope all this would generate some introspection.
Why did we work so hard to silence all the women talking about safeguarding children? Why did Labour and the Unions insist that women must be coerced into undressing in front of random men? Why did we not realise that the belief sex change is possible is just that - a belief, a middle aged man's sexual fantasy? Why do some senior labour men see safeguarding as bigotry and an attack on their rights?

Is it because these particular men dominate the party? Is that why we abandoned women's safety and the wellbeing of children? Because if Streeting and the party can't work out what's got them on this wrong side of history then they're doomed to repeat it. 😑

GailBlancheViola · 09/11/2024 18:03

County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust said it was committed to providing a safe, secure, and respectful environment for colleagues, operating within the law and adhering to national policies. It said: “Additional alternative changing facilities have been put in place, these include a private, individual, lockable changing room. An office has been converted into a locker room for the storage of belongings. The trust has processes in place for listening to and responding to concerns raised by any of our colleagues. We take all concerns raised seriously and investigate them thoroughly. An internal investigation continues to take place while the legal proceedings also continue.”

This is what really pisses me off. Instead of making an alternative arrangement for ONE person who decided he didn't want to change with his equally male colleagues the women have he changing room that is designed and designated for them repurposed to include males and they are shoved out into makeshift facilities and that is determined as respect is it? The Trust respect only ONE person here, the male, the member of the sacred caste.

Tallisker · 09/11/2024 18:15

Yes, why can't he have the office that opens into a corridor? There's only one of him but loads of women needing to change.

(I know why Grin)

MelodyMalone · 09/11/2024 18:27

I wonder how many women are still changing in the "women's" changing room. Or if he's in there by himself in solitary splendour.

Ramblingnamechanger · 09/11/2024 23:37

I was in a similar situation in my first job 50 years ago…I knew something was wrong and creepy but had not come across these men before. The older women did not change in the same room and did tell me why. We all had to find other arrangements so that he got his choice. I was outraged then but could not speak out . Now I think we must always speak out and find our allies.

Catsmere · 11/11/2024 00:49

MelodyMalone · 09/11/2024 10:10

I see the Times article says "Rose has been approached for comment."

Has he ever said anything publicly?

It's hard for me to imagine the mindset of a person who, knowing that they are causing others to (at the least) feel uncomfortable and (at the most) experience severe distress, doesn't say "OK, I didn't realise I'd have this effect, I'll change somewhere else." That's what a decent person with genuine motivations would do. If the descriptions of his behaviour are accurate, he is not such a person.

It can't be easy being at the centre of a media storm but this is all on him.

He's a bog-standard male sexual predator. Women's distress = their pleasure.

Notaflippinclue · 11/11/2024 00:51

Rose pwahahaha point and laugh point and laugh

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/11/2024 10:41

One of the nurses was interviewed on Woman's Hour a short while ago. Very fluent, very confident and very clear.

Nuala Mcgovern was following the BBC script to the letter.......countering everything that the nurse said; referring to the man as 'she'; asking her what part her Christianity played in the decision to take legal action; asking here whether she agreed with anti abortion protestors and other Christain campaigns etc.

At no point did she show empathy or sympathy to the nurses' plight; in fact her tone was quite the opposite. Crazy, when the presenter is not permitted to show empathy for other women on Woman's Hour.

RethinkingLife · 20/11/2024 11:00

Nuala Mcgovern was following the BBC script to the letter.......countering everything that the nurse said; referring to the man as 'she'; asking her what part her Christianity played in the decision to take legal action; asking here whether she agreed with anti abortion protestors and other Christain campaigns etc.

Well, that's obviously WH being very even-handed. They've been exactly like that whenever speaking to a TW. Asking how much misogyny or perhaps a mental health condition has influenced their actions, whether they agree with the actions of those who disrupt women's gatherings etc. Maybe justify the logic of abnegating same-sex attraction.

EB was heavily criticised for her questioning of Steph Richards when the latter was appointed CEO of an endometriosis charity but that was an rare aberration just par for the course.

Sex-realist women and TW are both interviewed in the same judicious way (even if it feels like the former are interrogated and their stance set up for derision).

[/end despair at WH]

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/11/2024 13:49

RethinkingLife · 20/11/2024 11:00

Nuala Mcgovern was following the BBC script to the letter.......countering everything that the nurse said; referring to the man as 'she'; asking her what part her Christianity played in the decision to take legal action; asking here whether she agreed with anti abortion protestors and other Christain campaigns etc.

Well, that's obviously WH being very even-handed. They've been exactly like that whenever speaking to a TW. Asking how much misogyny or perhaps a mental health condition has influenced their actions, whether they agree with the actions of those who disrupt women's gatherings etc. Maybe justify the logic of abnegating same-sex attraction.

EB was heavily criticised for her questioning of Steph Richards when the latter was appointed CEO of an endometriosis charity but that was an rare aberration just par for the course.

Sex-realist women and TW are both interviewed in the same judicious way (even if it feels like the former are interrogated and their stance set up for derision).

[/end despair at WH]

Emma Barnett actually did a good job of standing up for women...on Woman's Hour. Shame she's gone.......Nuala Mcgovern, like most of the newer presenters shows no evidence of being woman focused at all. I don't know how you can have a show called 'Woman's Hour' and talk to women with no empathy at all..... when it involves men who claim female identities.

Bizarre......Honestly.....it really is Orwellian.

lcakethereforeIam · 01/12/2024 22:35

I noticed this article in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/BNTtH

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/01/nurses-sue-nhs-tribunal-trans-safe-single-sex-spaces/

It's not the win I originally thought it was. The proposed guidance has been drawn up by the nurses apparently at the request of Streeting. So, not a reverse ferret by the trust but it's green (white and violet) shoots.

UtopiaPlanitia · 01/12/2024 23:11

I was pleased to see the article has supportive quotes from the Shadow Equalities Minister. That’s hopefully going to be useful for the nurses.

Snowypeaks · 01/12/2024 23:14

They've been following the FWS case, clearly.

IwantToRetire · 02/12/2024 01:20

Trans people not allowed in women’s changing rooms under proposed NHS guidance

Female single-sex spaces are private and should not have to be “inclusive” of biological men, according to the proposals drawn up by a group of nurses from Darlington who are <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/BNTtH/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/02/darlington-nurses-fighting-for-women-only-spaces/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">suing their employer over the issue.

The draft guidance – which the nurses revealed was requested by Wes Streeting, the Health Secretary, after he met them in October – notes that there is no “hierarchy” under equality laws and the rights of trans people should not be prioritised over those of women.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/01/nurses-sue-nhs-tribunal-trans-safe-single-sex-spaces/

Full article at https://archive.is/BNTtH

Notaflippinclue · 11/12/2024 17:15

Well there won't be any men in the womens World Cup in 2034 in Saudi Arabia and there will definitely be biological womens changing rooms - thank goodness for small mercy's

Justme56 · 21/01/2025 11:09

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but there was a preliminary hearing yesterday. They have applied for an order to not release Rose’s surname, Rose doesn’t have a GRC and the Counsel suggests some confrontational behaviour by Rose towards the nurses since proceedings have begun.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/20/trans-nurse-changing-room-row-intimidated-darlington-rose/

Snowypeaks · 21/01/2025 11:13

Archive version of Telegraph article
https://archive.ph/qestX