Gisele Pelicot defendants described

[theDudesmummy]

This is a depressing but instructive read. A common theme seems to be that the men claim they just didn't bother to think. And that they "didn't know" or didn't understand about the concept of consent. Is that just what they say, or a true reflection?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/23/a-soldier-a-nurse-a-lorry-driver-and-dozens-more-who-are-the-men-accused-over-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

This is not a new slogan, it predates the GP trial, but oh how relevant now!
'Shame should switch sides'

'Defence lawyer De Palma caused controversy earlier in the trial when he said that “rape is not always rape”, and argued that “without the intention of committing rape, there is no rape".'

Crikey!

I'm still wondering how Dominique got hold of all those sedatives.

Just put Radio 4 on - being discussed rn

New York Times article (might be paywalled) actually gives some of the f**kers full names

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/27/france-mass-rape-pelicot.html

Interesting. Makes me wonder why the Guardian didn't also.

It absolutely terrifies me that there are so many men like this in the world. It's just terrifying for me and my daughters.

One of them, Christian Lescole, a firefighter who has 2 daughters, is now claiming that he and the other men "must have been drugged" because they cannot believe they would do such a thing. You've heard of women being Drug raped, now men are doing Drug raping ? Oh NOES.🙄

“I have no future left. I spent my life protecting people. I never had a problem with justice before,” said Mr. Lescole. In contrast to many other defendants, he was relatively loquacious during his testimony.
Since the court case began in early September, Mr. Lescole has attended regularly, sitting in one of two prisoners’ boxes, often stroking his long beard while watching intensely. He was there in search of some existential answers, he said, “because this is not me. This doesn’t reflect my values. How did I get here?”
During the trial, he said he counted 18 men who’d said they’d been offered a drink by Mr. Pelicot after arriving at the Pelicots’ home. He now says he believes they’d all been drugged. He told the court he had no memory after stepping inside the bedroom.
“I have big doubts about my free will at that moment,” he said.
“Materially, I committed a rape,” he added. “But it was my body, not my brain.”

The sob stories of these men have been absolutely mind blowing.

But this last one is interesting. I think it actually reflects a reality of sorts - so so many men, even the so-called "good ones" just deep down believe women are lesser. That they can be good men even as they treat women badly because that's not "real" somehow. I can't explain it but I see it all the time (obviously at a much less harmful level). It's the low lying misogyny and assumptions that are just hardwired into society and accepted.

Lescole, the firefighter, had images of child sexual abuse.

And his partner is still standing by him 😝

Must have been drugged - when they sought out and entered a chatroom called without her consent.

Hopefully they will all get the sentences they deserve.

I wonder if he was 'inspired' by Guillaume de Palma invoking mens rea and actus reus by saying, 'There's rape and there's rape, and without intent to commit it, it's not rape.'
In any case, it's laughable, especially coming from a man found to possess images of child sexual abuse.

I adopted a 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' kind of attitude years ago. There is one man I trust very nearly implicitly to the point he has a spare key in the event of an emergency. As for the rest, I can still like them a lot and trust them to various degrees, but I never assume they wouldn't be capable of sexual or domestic abuse.

And as an aside, I'm deeply suspicious of the ones who make a show of how they're not misogynists, the so-called 'feminists' and 'allies', the ones who drop references to how good they are to women and how very difficult it must be for us into conversations. Men who are decent don't need to go on ego trips. The true allies don't call themselves such or pretend to understand. They support quietly and unassumingly.

This is spot on, @TheTruthICantSay - you see it every day in lots of small ways, but if you bring it up, you are dismissed or told you are over reacting etc etc. The thing that gave me the most chills was the statement about someone 'so pure'. Just back to the madonna and whore trope again, and that women who are not perfect, who have sexual desires or dont fit the mold are less than and therefore fair game.

I read a piece at the weekend about the wider impact this has had on the Pelicot family, and it was sickneing. Mother and daughter no longer talk, DS's marriage failed because of his father's conduct.

Trigger warning if you do look it up, because the actions of Mr. Pelicot within his family are horrifying, but I hadn't considered how wide an issue this was outside of the husband / wife directly involved.

So many of these men have dangerous and violent backgrounds. He had no knowledge at all of the full intentions of these men, he really didn't care one iota for her, or her safety, over his rancid sexual urges.

They can shove their empty apologies and sob stories up their nonconsenting arseholes. They are only pouring those out to selfishly avoid a prison sentence. Bunch of absolute gutter dwelling pigs.

Re the “sob stories” - it’s a court reporter’s job to present and report the facts as they are told in court.

Love the fact that you’re all getting wound up about that - and the woman who wrote the article- rather than the rapists themselves

I wasn't aware we had to pick one element of this disgusting situation to get 'wound up about'.

Love the fact that you’re all getting wound up about that - and the woman who wrote the article- rather than the rapists themselves

That’s funny coming from someone whose first post on this thread is getting wound up about how women are discussing the topic, rather than the rapists themselves…

The more I read about this the more I think Gisele is an absolute heroine. Amazing lady.

I read some references to tension between them but can’t find anything else on it. Could you link the article? I did just read that Dominique kept the photos and videos in a folder entitled ‘abuse’. You couldn’t make it up.

@VictorianBigot I'll have to check later for a link but the father had images taken of his DD, drugged and unconscious, which the DD didn't know had been taken. She then found out that Gisele was taking warm clothes to the prison for her estranged DH, and the DD felt she was supporting the accused rather than her .

What a load of fucking bullshit. Trying to defend the indefensible. Anyone who believes any of this pathetic rubbish is a complete idiot.
They deserve increased sentences for insulting everyone’s intelligence and wasting court time.
As for the poor me I had a very sad childhood stuff well that makes me even angrier. I had such a shitty childhood it would sound like a horror version of eastenders if I described it but I have never felt the urge to hurt anybody.
I would say they are making it worse for Gisele but actually I think perhaps it helps having these monstrous morons show who they really are by spewing their ridiculous excuses.
I love her words:
It is time for shame to change sides.

Ah, thank you. I suspected that would be the case based on what I’ve read about Gisele’s testimonies. It must be horrific to navigate as a family, feelings towards abuse and abusers can be so complex and varied. I can only imagine the agony her daughter is feeling and how torturous it must be to not know what happened. I hadn’t realised he had also taken secret footage of his son’s wife. It just gets worse and worse.

The excuses are typical and predictable.
If you ever know someone who is accused of rape there are so many reasons why, for them, it wasn’t rape, and the vast majority of people believe them, unlike in the case of these temptress women who are clearly either falsely accusing or deserved it for some sexist reason.

Too many men (and I don’t buy that it’s a minority) don’t see women as fully functioning humans but see us as there to serve them, cook and clean for them, raise their children and be willing to have sex as and when he’d like it.

Link to article about Pelicot family:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje0g8x5pggo.amp