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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender neutral language in pregnancy care

203 replies

QuirkyJadeSwan · 10/10/2024 02:49

So I’m currently pregnant with my first and have been kind of low key annoyed with how common discussions around pregnancy and related topics remove to term woman or female (I.e birthing people). I started getting bugged by this during my trying to conceive phase and now it bugs me even more. I know it’s kind of a minor thing in the grand scheme of things but I needed to vent. Seriously going through TTC & pregnancy has made me about 10x more aware of how different physically women are.

OP posts:
BlueAndYelow · 10/10/2024 14:41

I wonder if anyone advocating for "gender" neutral language in pregnancy considered that if anyone can get pregnant (women, men, NB), then why does reproductive health is deemed a women's rights issue? Don't people (women in particular) understand that this is damaging to females due to sex discrimination? <eyeroll>

QuirkyJadeSwan · 10/10/2024 15:52

Babycentiles · 10/10/2024 12:46

I gave birth last year and didn't come across any gender neutral language. Signs everywhere in antenatal clinics and postpartum wards said 'pregnant women' and 'breast feeding.' I'm in England so might be different in other countries. Only women can be pregnant so at least my NHS Trust knows that.

Yeah, my obgyn and women’s health clinic has been great actually.

Most of my annoyance comes from the fact that I have an admitted bad habit of Dr Googling and Reddit searching every little symptom because I’m somewhat paranoid as a first timer.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2024 15:54

How would one know one was a non-man?

Judellie · 10/10/2024 16:32

The only time I went looking my work had carefully said 'Anyone pregnant'

DadJoke · 10/10/2024 16:42

The term "pregnant patient" has been used for decades with no issues - would anyone have a problem with that?

Circumferences · 10/10/2024 16:51

DadJoke · 10/10/2024 16:42

The term "pregnant patient" has been used for decades with no issues - would anyone have a problem with that?

That's a bit faux-naive though, because we all know transactivists have made sure the word "woman" is removed from any materials relating to pregnancy, and they in fact boast about it.

Even the word "female" is targeted.

Circumferences · 10/10/2024 16:53

Pregnant women exist.

This shouldn't be a shock factor statement.

Paganpentacle · 10/10/2024 17:03

''The identity part is a niche issue, where cis women are concerned''

I can assure you.... its not fucking niche to want your identity as a WOMAN protected.

PaminaMozart · 10/10/2024 17:11

Seeing that the mere fact of being women affects almost every part of our lives, calling 'the identity part ... a niche issue' isn't just incredibly stupid but extremely offensive.

Grammarnut · 10/10/2024 17:57

DadJoke · 10/10/2024 16:42

The term "pregnant patient" has been used for decades with no issues - would anyone have a problem with that?

I think that's okay. At least it doesn't assume that there are women and 'people who might be pregnant', as if that's different (and women aren't proper people).

LittleshopofTriffids · 10/10/2024 18:08

Lady1ntheLake · 10/10/2024 10:40

The mother infant dyad concept is offensive to all manner of non traditional families.

Discounting the mother-child dyad is offensive to mothers.

BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop · 10/10/2024 18:09

@Grammarnut did you miss the bit where I said that it’s not my preferred terminology either, but the NHS does have a duty to try and encourage patients to attend, and some of those patients might be alienated by the word ‘woman’ wether I agree with their reasoning or not?
I dislike “pregnant patient” more because I don’t like reducing the people I see down to “patients”, it’s funny how peoples opinion on what is dehumanising or not differs.

Circumferences · 10/10/2024 18:22

Grammarnut · Today 17:57
I think that's okay.

I don't think think it's ok for the word "woman" to be erased from all material relating to female biology.
Reducing us to "pregnant people, people who menstruate, people with ovaries, people with a vagina" etc etc is deliberately used so the word "woman" can mean people with a penis who say they're a woman.

But each to their own.

FranticFrankie · 10/10/2024 20:21

I’m not sure that the patients who are ‘alienated’ by the word ‘woman’ are the ones who need encouragement to attend for maternity care; in my experience, they’ll almost shout it from the rooftops
It’s the women with English as a second language and the women with vulnerabilities who need the help and encouragement to access care.
They really are the most vulnerable

BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop · 10/10/2024 20:31

FranticFrankie · 10/10/2024 20:21

I’m not sure that the patients who are ‘alienated’ by the word ‘woman’ are the ones who need encouragement to attend for maternity care; in my experience, they’ll almost shout it from the rooftops
It’s the women with English as a second language and the women with vulnerabilities who need the help and encouragement to access care.
They really are the most vulnerable

Some people who identify as trans are extremely vulnerable, there’s a clear link between autism and young women with ROGD, and the population has a higher incidence of mental health problems overall. I agree that losing the word “woman” in any literature targeting the general populace would be very dangerous, and would isolate women who have English as their second language, and women who for various reasons can not name their own reproductive organs.

Katkins17 · 10/10/2024 20:32

Lady1ntheLake · 10/10/2024 09:42

Pregnant person here. I’m very happy for that language to be used. It’s clear, direct, and factual, and in no way confusing or alienating. Claiming otherwise, in service of a political point, feels disingenuous.

Funny thing is.....as a 'pregnant person' every single person reading your post, knows you're female...

I find in immensely insulting that the word woman and mother are being 'excluded' so to be 'inclusive' to a tiny minority of trans identifying women, who actually do the most womanly thing possible.

Katkins17 · 10/10/2024 20:45

Only men have a penis.
That's a biological fact.
A man who believes he wants to be a woman, is just that....nothing more.

Only a woman can get pregnant.
That's a biological fact.
Only a woman has a uterus with which to carry a baby and the ovum to create one.
A woman who believes herself to be a man is just that, nothing more.

Simple really, but wow.... there are so many useful idiots out there who will fight for women's rights to be harvested and handed over, gifted wrapped, to these men, without a thought.

Women and girls have been burnt alive, raped, abused, stoned, murdered, debased, demeaned, ignored, etc etc because of their biology since time began...to say our biology now isn't important is the biggest pile of crap ever....

LyricalGangsta · 10/10/2024 20:49

wincarwoo · 10/10/2024 10:04

Why do women have to accommodate a tiny minority who reject their sex?

This

DworkinWasRight · 10/10/2024 20:56

Why do the words men and women exist? What are they describing if not biological differences?

Grammarnut · 11/10/2024 09:46

BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop · 10/10/2024 18:09

@Grammarnut did you miss the bit where I said that it’s not my preferred terminology either, but the NHS does have a duty to try and encourage patients to attend, and some of those patients might be alienated by the word ‘woman’ wether I agree with their reasoning or not?
I dislike “pregnant patient” more because I don’t like reducing the people I see down to “patients”, it’s funny how peoples opinion on what is dehumanising or not differs.

I didn't miss it, I focused on the 'pregnant people' bit - not meaning to offend you or blame you for the daft terminology.

viques · 11/10/2024 10:37

Lady1ntheLake · 10/10/2024 09:59

No one is saying there’s anything wrong with the word "woman." Using "people" is simply inclusive of women, as well as those pregnant individuals who identify differently. We’re all people first and foremost.

Well, yes, we are all people first, as opposed to identifying as another mammalian species. But once we accept that we are all people, we also need to accept that in common with the other mammals we are two sexes and that while some of our needs, wants and expectations as people don’t depend on sex - we all need food, water, shelter for example - there are some needs, wants and expectations that are sex specific and many of these are health related. Men for example, don’t experience periods , pregnancy and the menopause. Women don’t experience erectile dysfunction and prostate cancer.

So accepting this and using appropriate language makes sense. Some people might not like their physical bodies, but not liking them will not change how they work.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 11/10/2024 11:05

I know I've wanged on about this before, but it really is to my mind a serious issue.

Speaking as an immigrant whose older relatives do not have perfect English especially for medical and technical terms.

Gender neutral language in ALL aspects of gynaecologists is RACIST. Many immigrant women do not understand NHS literature that adopts gender neutral pronouns or uses teminology such as cervix haver instead of woman.

This means that immigrant women risk not going to important appointments, not recognising the signs that something is wrong with their health, or making poor decisions because they do not properly understand the choices offered to them.

First gen immigrant women especially those of African and Asian ethnicity already have the UK's poorest outcomes for health in pregnancy, childbirth and gynae issues. This idiocy makes it worse.

At some point I fear some poor woman is going to have a disastrous health outcome or medical neglect because her healthcare providers were 'communicating' in silly gender neutral agrammatical language she failed to understand. WOMEN'S BODIES ARE NOT A GAME.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 11/10/2024 11:16

DadJoke · 10/10/2024 11:33

The guidance generally say that the patient should be addressed with language they are happy with. If that's not the case, you should complain. If they are using birthing parent or chest feeding to you when you want mother and breast feeding, that's not right. I would be amazed if they do.

If you look online, expect inclusive language in many places. But sure, be annoyed by it if you like.

Edited

This is an incredibly middle class anglocentric white privilege take.

Very many immigrant women feel intimidated in healthcare situations, for a variety of linguistic and cultural reasons which I won't get into here. Suffice to say that they do feel intimidated, I know individuals who feel intimidated in that scenario, and what they do is stay quiet, not ask questions and just do their best to comprehend what is happening.

the idea that vulnerable women can behave like ultra-capitalist consumers, confidently rejecting certain terms and specifying which other terms they'd like their healthcare provider to use, is frankly, a very complacant and uneducated idea.

Most white privilege thing I've seen on MN this week, and believe me, that's against some pretty stiff competition. Please, I beg you, go and educate yourself on immigrant experiences in the UK.

Beowulfa · 11/10/2024 11:21

Great posts GiveMeSpanokopita. There are far, far more women in this country for whom English is not their first (or even second language) or who have a learning disability, than who identify as man-gender.

Shortshriftandlethal · 11/10/2024 11:24

Peonies12 · 10/10/2024 06:22

I’m also pregnant; and I am far more concerned with the poor standard of maternity care than what words are used. Made worse by having had a horrific experience last year trying to get medical attention whilst having a traumatic miscarriage. Honestly; focus your attention and concern on what matters. I couldn’t care less what word someone uses, when I was bleeding out in a&e.

Good for you; but care for some people also involves using emotionally sensitive and accurate language.

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