How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

[Autumnleavesareslippery]

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

And even grandparents. My in-laws had two grandsons and a granddaughter. They now apparently have three grandsons and need to forget all the history, from birth, of that family dynamic.

That's 'gender', I suppose, in the sense that their experience of interacting with a grandchild shouldn't be much different whether the child is a boy or a girl, but I know they were knocked sideways by the loss.

I think most of us are suspicious only of people who have posted here but not engaged with the actual point of the thread but, instead, chosen to lecture people they refer to as ‘GC posters’ (and be rude/abusive about them). And also the lurkers who read, scroll, report and don’t post.

Your posts have been really valuable and the reference to underlying significant mental illness rings true for many of us or chimes with our underlying concerns that affirmation means this is missed and our trans IDing relative is failed by not getting the help, and differential diagnosis, that they need - or the right help.

Please continue to share with us. We appreciate your input.

@DeanElderberry @MumOfYoungTransAdult
This is exactly how I feel. Grief when I look at old photos because my child has rewritten their past. I have spent months now searching for signs of a child having been born into the wrong body but there is nothing. We have asked family friends and school friends’ parents if they have seen anything but they haven’t. Our psychiatrist, who diagnosed autism and PTSD does not believe they are trans. However, my child has self diagnosed. How have we come to a point where it is possible for a young person with autism and trauma to be able to self diagnose and be only able to access medical care which is either affirmative or critical. Where is the holistic care for this group of vulnerable young adults and their families? Some of the siblings in these situations will also be teenagers building their own sense of self in a time of increased and sustained stress and anxiety in the family home. They must also be at risk of poor mental health in the same way that a sibling of someone with anorexia is affected. Although I would argue that it is worse for the sibling of a ROGD youth* because it is not considered an illness and consequently there is no treatment plan.
We all know that the digital footprint of this cohort is toxic but by the time we came to this realisation our children were already young adults There was nothing we could do about it, particularly if they had already left the family home to go to uni.

• Please note, I distinguish between rapid onset gender dysphoria and early childhood gender dysphoria and I believe both groups should be treated very differently.

I think that it is a crying shame that many psychologists have distanced themselves from gender, although I fully understand why they would as to do any exploration is considered transphobic. As parents, we have to be the adults in the room but we need help with this.

@Kalalily I think that it is a crying shame that many psychologists have distanced themselves from gender, although I fully understand why they would as to do any exploration is considered transphobic. As parents, we have to be the adults in the room but we need help with this.

I listened to Dr Cass on Woman's Hour and she said it's coming but slowly. Maybe too slowly to help our own children. But she said that more mental health professionals are starting to feel more confidence that they can apply the skills and knowledge they have already to children with gender issues and this is part of taking a whole-child approach instead of a gender-only sidetrack. So I have hope.

Its also the guilt thats layered on in terms of you being 'to blame' for 'not treating them right' and recognising their 'true authentic self' and that this contributed to the misery they've felt their whole life.

This is also overlooked - this concept that you were a major contributing factor in what was making them unhappy and not fitting in, even within the family unit.

Its the whole process of what Kalalily says here:
I have spent months now searching for signs of a child having been born into the wrong body but there is nothing. We have asked family friends and school friends’ parents if they have seen anything but they haven’t.

For me it was also the worry of what being trans is. Especially since in my case way back in the late 2000s that there was a group of three who lived locally who all transitioned at the same time. Was it social contagion and the social circles I was in? Was it something in the local environment? Was it genetic? And what are the implications of this not just for my brother - but also potentially for me? (I don't live too far away from where I grew up).

What about when I had kids? What did/does this mean?

And actually I don't feel this question really has been resolved. Especially when it seems that neurodiversity seems to be a contributing factor, my own gender questioning and the fact DS now has a diagnosis of ADHD.

The questions being asked throughout this by people in positions of power as so unbeleivably fucked in the head and have lost all sense of whats most crucial.

The prospect of this changing and being in place in the next few years still don't seem any where close. Not with the conversion therapy bill still hanging over this parliamentary session... And CAHMS and mental health services in this country are not going to miraculously turn around in the next 5 years are they?

We've forgotten ethics whilst trying to blabber on about human rights etc. 'Human rights' without an understanding of unpinning ethical practise just becomes a meaningless phrase thrown about without comprehesion of the WHY we do this or that or WHY human rights came about in the first place.

The blame thing, especially when aimed at mothers, is another aspect of the unacknowledged misogyny of this issue. As the parent of a child with ASD/ADHD or anything really, you spend years worrying that you did something wrong - did you have a glass of wine before you knew you were pregnant, were you too old, should you NOT have vaccinated them and all that social media guff directed at you.

So when the ‘born in the wrong body’ thing started and I was told ‘my brain is male but my body is female so you grew me wrong’ [and yes, I was given that spiel some years ago] I flipped. It weaponises all of this.

Fortunately I was able to give her a TedTalk (informed by a neuroscience heavy Psychology degree I took when she was small) explaining that the male/female brain is a load of outdated theoretical bollocks: that changes in the brain during the lifetime occur in response to a huge number of environmental - and latterly hormonal - stimuli and are not because I was a deficient baby incubator. I made it very fucking clear that anything she had read from someone holding a PhD in gender & genetics from the University of TicTok was a steaming pile of crap and would not be entertained in my home, especially if she wanted to continue living in it.

Tense times, but it’s never been raised again… and it marked the point at which I moved from #BeKind and compassionate to expressly non-affirming.

This is also overlooked - this concept that you were a major contributing factor in what was making them unhappy and not fitting in, even within the family unit.

As a mum you get used to that 🙂 but I hadn't considered what that might do to a brother or sister.

There was a lot about pesticides, water pollution, additives etc etc when my brother came out. This was something potentially relevant to my Dad's career.

Absoluetely. We are talking about teenage kids in a lot of cases. Not adults.

Oh my god, that's so painful 💔@MumOfYoungTransAdult I'm so sorry.

We all pussyfoot around talk about childhood around my trans child because we're so afraid of saying the wrong thing and upsetting "him". Which of course is distressing to my DD2, their twin, it's her childhood too.

Not only is my trans child denying reality, they are denying the rest of the family our history. It's similar to infidelity, betrayal, because you're made to doubt the past and the version you knew is taken away from you.

I was also shocked recently when a new acquaintance referred to my "son" 💔 The power of this ideology to enforce such dishonesty and lies!

Re finding therapists that don't jump straight to affirmation, there's the Thoughtful Therapists network that aims for neutral exploratory therapy. I don't know if any of them have specific expertise in sibling support.

Saltysandysea, I have been wondering whether some of the methods which have been used historically to extricate people could help here

@Runor

@RedToothBrush posted some good advice at 22.38 yesterday.

But be quick to screenshot it as someone may come along to report/delete it any second…!!!

Tricky as cults work by isolating the individual from friends and family and have zero tolerance for any other point of view but their own. The individual can only see what they are allowed to see and just get drawn in. But the trans movement is so mainstream now it is hard to fight. They have the social media content, influencers, and just make their demands without any form of discussion, can get away with threats of violence and now the situation is been abused by men who feel able to access single sex spaces.

In a word yes.

Which is precisely why MN banning conversations in just so infuriating.

If you look into this, the advice is pretty much the best you can find AND it defuses a lot of the family guilt in terms of realising how you can feel powerless and what the alienation process involves.

My friend's son does this. He has ADHD as does his mother (tho, she wasn't diagnosed until he was). I have my own doubts about ADHD treatments but my friend has always been very successful in school and career, and when their son came along, she, like many of us working moms, took on the bulk of the childcare. At times, she'd be juggling so much, she would drop son off late at an event or be frazzled in the mornings. Just like I have.
^
Despite growing up upper middle class,^ private schools, loving married parents, apparently his childhood trauma is due to her lateness. She apparently is in therapy because her trans son expects her to confront her parenting fails. She believes she was an awful parent and now she's decided the only way to atone is to fully affirm him, when she was first questioning it. This strains our relationship greatly as I can't stomach her defending his sumo wrestling sized body entering women and girls's restrooms.

He's my godson, I love him dearly, but when he told me the thing about her being late (he was in his 20s at the time), the urge to slap that nasty expression off his smug face both shocked me and also opened my eyes at how ungrateful and narcissistic he really was. It was a real turning point for me when I saw that this ideology is designed to destroy families and friendships.

@Delphinium20 Am so sad to read about your friend’s experience. She was going through this at a time when you were absolutely not allowed to question your child’s identity - and clearly their behaviour.

It sickens me as we really SHOULD be able to push back. When I was growing up (in the wild 80s and 90s), if we come home drunk at 15, skived school, or parents found drug paraphernalia you’d have expected to be on the sharp end of a serious bollocking. But with this parents have lost their right of reply. And it’s leeched into everything else now - so that if they DO skive from school, or get caught underage drinking, you are supposed to rush them to therapy so that you can better understand them and absorb the responsibility for their behaviour because whatever their reasons it must ultimately be your fault.

I know the pendulum swings both ways before it settles back in the middle, and this is the reaction to over-authoritarian parenting of past decades, but could it hurry up and recalibrate?

Sending virtual hugs to your friend - I am endlessly stunned by our ability to continue to love and worry over our kids/god children even when they display such selfish and narcissistic behaviours. They’ll never understand just how deeply they are loved: that largely maternal ability to love so completely and unconditionally is such a superpower (and a curse).

It is frustrating as I do honestly have every sympathy with genuine trans people (e.g. former boxing promoter Kellie Mallory). But the movement has been taken over & they are targeting the vulnerable & impressionable. Telling a children year old how they identify & encouraging hormone therapy is just horrifying, and then isolating them from their parents & friends. No other group would get away with this legally.

Sending virtual hugs to your friend - I am endlessly stunned by our ability to continue to love and worry over our kids/god children even when they display such selfish and narcissistic behaviours. They’ll never understand just how deeply they are loved: that largely maternal ability to love so completely and unconditionally is such a superpower (and a curse).

Beautifully stated, @CautiousLurker thank you

Oh gosh, I relate to this so much, the self-scrutiny and self-recrimination. And you're on to a loser as we all make mistakes and it's natural, particularly as women in this culture, to feel guilty for everything and nothing. My mum used to say, "a woman's place is in the wrong".

If you were wanting to create a, um, coercive organisation that trashed women's rights by undermining the way words can be used to express women's oppression, what better tool could you harness than women's own self-doubt and self-blame?

Maybe recognising that tendency in ourselves, and rejecting it, and stubbornly refusing to blame ourselves for a phenomenon that's mostly very clearly driven by bad actors on the internet is something we should be actively doing as a first step to de-fanging some of this stuff.

@Delphinium20 your poor friend. What she has been put through in terms of blame and guilt sounds horrendous. So immature from someone in their 20s. I came across a podcast with the journalist Hadleigh Freeman and she draws parallels between trans and anorexia, which I found interesting. Those suffering from anorexia might do similar to their parents but they would do it because they lacked cognitive function because of malnutrition. It’s not right in either instance, but you could understand it better in somebody whose brain is starved.
It must come from a lack of empathy due to neurodivergence and if you don’t have any coping skills then I guess you can become a pretty horrible person to live with, lashing out, apportioning blame etc. I’m sure a therapist would say that it is not ok and boundaries need to be put in place.
It is interesting that autism is so prevalent in people suffering from anorexia and also in teens with ROGD. Our understanding of autism has increased so much in the last few years that hopefully we will get better at diagnosing and supporting young people struggling to understand themselves.

Interesting you should note anorexia. My friend's son has claimed that, as it's a "girls' disorder" but I saw no signs of it (he's actually overweight due to the estrogen). Maybe disordered eating? He also did some cutting for about 6 months and would wear shorts to show off the cuts (not deep). No idea if this is related, and I didn't understand why every time we saw him he purposely wore 'short shorts' to show the scars...it obviously speaks to mental illness, but I don't understand it and my friend has been too distressed to talk about in terms of why-she was more focused on stopping it. and apparently it was very shortlived, but not sure.

Re self-harm and purposely showing the marks: for me, it was a way of showing how unhappy I was without using words because I didn't and still don't have words to articulate it. Alexithymia is a common feature of autism, and it's when you can't name or describe your emotions in words. So I didn't, and still don't, understand what "happy" means and all of "angry", "guilty", "scared" etc were called "bad" and still all get mixed up in the moment. Showing the self-harm marks can be an attempt to manipulate, I don't dispute that, but it can also be a good-faith silent scream for help with a problem that the screamer can't even describe.