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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/10/2024 20:19

This reply has been deleted

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AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/10/2024 20:22

The 'paradox of tolerance' is a brilliant way to look at balancing needs and rights. Thanks to whoever shared that.

EugenieGrandet · 09/10/2024 20:30

I've been debating with myself as to whether to post on this thread or not. There are so many of us with young adult children who are going through this extremely difficult and traumatic situation.

I have identical twin daughters. After she turned 18, DD1 told us that she was transgender and would like to be a boy. DD1 is autistic, ADHD and has an eating disorder. In the years since, she has gone on to socially and medically transition (taking testosterone), irreversible physical changes have occurred.

DD2 was of course initially supportive and #bekind, no questions, no doubt.

But as my children have gone out into the world, grown up a bit, their relationship has deteriorated because DD2 has come full circle and seen the impact of the trans agenda (the sexism, the homophobia, the breaches in safeguarding).

And personally, for her, she feels an absolute loss for her twin sister, as well as a rejection of her (DD1 doesn't like herself ergo she doesn't like her twin DD2).

It is not easy going through the grief and rejection of your child's transition and supporting the other children through their loss. All the while trying to maintain a positive relationship with everyone and between everyone.

Now DD2 feels a lot of resentment because she doesn't agree with gender ideology and does not like that we indulge DD1's new identity. Why are we the only ones being accommodating, when DD1 only acts in a self-centred way.

OP I can only tell you that I have quite different conversations with my trans child than the conversations with DD2. It is heartbreaking on so many levels.

Thank you for starting this thread, and to the many posters who have shared especially @RedToothBrush and @SisterofMCW .

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:32

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 19:53

As I say.

The tone deafness is instructive. Every. Single. Time

I mean. Talk about proving the point.

This.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 20:33

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:39

That sounds so hard for you and your daughter, @EugenieGrandet

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/10/2024 20:40

I KNOW I'm not a terrible person. I don't have to prove this to anyone. I don't have to virtue signal

This. There are so many parallels with abusive relationships, the coercion and control.

@EugenieGrandet your story sounds heartbreaking. It sounds so hard trying to balance supporting both your twins.

DoreenonTill8 · 09/10/2024 20:44

@EugenieGrandet that sounds so difficult for you and dd2.
Are things OK with dd2 not engaging with the trans ideology, does she and dd1 talk at all?
How does she address her?

CautiousLurker · 09/10/2024 20:50

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/10/2024 20:40

I KNOW I'm not a terrible person. I don't have to prove this to anyone. I don't have to virtue signal

This. There are so many parallels with abusive relationships, the coercion and control.

@EugenieGrandet your story sounds heartbreaking. It sounds so hard trying to balance supporting both your twins.

@EugenieGrandet just seconding this. Heartbreaking barely covers it. 💔

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 09/10/2024 20:54

I read RedToothBrush's post at 20.33 just before it was deleted. Someone complained, someone who really doesn't want the nature of a certain worldview to be mentioned. RedToothBrush was right.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:55

The c word, perhaps.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 20:56

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/10/2024 20:40

I KNOW I'm not a terrible person. I don't have to prove this to anyone. I don't have to virtue signal

This. There are so many parallels with abusive relationships, the coercion and control.

@EugenieGrandet your story sounds heartbreaking. It sounds so hard trying to balance supporting both your twins.

I think i find it more compelling to reflect on why those who virtue signal do so and why they do it to the extent they choose to.

Why? And to whom? For what purpose?

I have nothing to prove to anyone on this subject. I am not threatening anyone. I am not issuing ultimatums.

Regardless of what I say, the moon will continue to not be made of cheese and men will continue not to be women.

When people try to make you say things that are demonstrably and obviously a lie, and are beyond being definable other than a moveable unfixable concept, you ask the question - who is in control of the narrative and who is actually making the decisions and for whose benefit?

In not being able to define what a woman is in legal terms, we lose protections offered by law by virtue of being female. So why is there never an answer to the question 'what is a woman'? Who benefits from the failure to be able to define the protective status under law of being a woman?

And does this stop our sex being our sex and that being trans is a observation in direct opposition to our definably of sex? Being trans is meaningless without that underlying understanding of the undeniably of sex even if it's unsaid and not written into law.

We can go around in circles about how bad and mean and horrible I am for understanding that sex doesn't stop existing because we want it to. Sex still is sex whether I say it or not.

Biology and nature is obviously mean and nasty and should be re-educated if I am for reflecting and observing it. That's where you see just how batshit this all is.

You can say what you like but I am not wrong in saying that you can not change sex. You can't. You can only pretend you can.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:56

Not the sweary one, I hasten to add!

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 20:56

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 09/10/2024 20:54

I read RedToothBrush's post at 20.33 just before it was deleted. Someone complained, someone who really doesn't want the nature of a certain worldview to be mentioned. RedToothBrush was right.

FFS I've been deleted again.

This is flaming ridiculous.

ColdinSeptember · 09/10/2024 20:57

Can I say I am not happy with the use of ‘transphobic’ it’s a made up slur meaning ‘you don’t agree with me and therefore a bad person’.
Its just another thing used to try and force people to believe something they don’t have to believe.

People are allowed to have their beliefs, especially ones rooted in science and facts.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:58

You can say what you like but I am not wrong in saying that you can not change sex. You can't. You can only pretend you can.

I think it's starting to cut through more, people are sick and tired in general of having to pretend up is down. It was never sustainable.

DoreenonTill8 · 09/10/2024 20:58

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 20:56

FFS I've been deleted again.

This is flaming ridiculous.

Have mn said what guidelines you broke? I'm confused!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 20:59

I did read Red's post and agreed with it but the only thing I can think is her description of the nature of the movement.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 21:00

RECOGNISE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF NEFARIOUS GROUPS.

Isolating members and penalising them for leaving

Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leader

Dishonoring the family unit

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies, and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 21:01

'Nefarious belief systems' often isolate their members from friends and family on the outside, punish doubts or questions, and require inordinate sacrifices and money from followers, who are closely controlled in a way that is out of step with most true religious groups

Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/10/2024 21:02

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CautiousLurker · 09/10/2024 21:02

This reply has been deleted

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Skyrainlight · 09/10/2024 21:05

ColdinSeptember · 09/10/2024 20:57

Can I say I am not happy with the use of ‘transphobic’ it’s a made up slur meaning ‘you don’t agree with me and therefore a bad person’.
Its just another thing used to try and force people to believe something they don’t have to believe.

People are allowed to have their beliefs, especially ones rooted in science and facts.

Agreed. Transphobic has completely lost it's meaning. It used to have a meaning but now it just means you aren't allowed to disagree with anyone who is trans and apparently according to a some reddit subs you aren't even allowed to not want to sleep with someone who is trans after finding out because that apparently also makes you transphobic. The level of insanity is unbelievably high.

Skyrainlight · 09/10/2024 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

How do you report the deletion? I would like to do so too.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 21:07

'A big lie' is a gross distortion or misrepresentation of the truth primarily used as a political propaganda technique.