Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3

[TheSandgroper]

Following on from busy threads 1 and 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5172553-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-thread-2-from-australia

Keep on discussing, ladies. Change never happens in silence.

No, I mean like if there were a plan to take over governments/councils with religious leaders deliberately to prepare for some kind of event (in the case of Victoria it looks like the Second Coming but it could equally be a similar event in a different religion).

A group lobbying government for their interests is entirely different. Look at LGB alliance for example. Noones suggesting they shouldn't exist.

I'm sorry that happened to you west

Verbal/emotional abuse is not easy to deal with. In the UK anyway social services/the police are overworked with physical violence and threat to life. I'm not sure what they could do.

If any poster has concerns about an electoral candidates religious beliefs, I recommend that they don’t vote for them.

A country’s government may have democratically elected members of parliament, that were legally and democratically elected by their electorate, that have any religious belief acceptable to the electorate and to the party they represent.

Had another look at this, so the objection seems to be a group planning on using their democratic vote and their ability to join a Democratic Party and propose candidates to take over the party. Bit like momentum.

It's awful when posters have issues following threads. Your posts are so interesting and long I fall over myself to read them. Especially the bit about you supporting women but post the exact opposite most of the time.

Look, there's no need to be nasty.
Either read the posts and comment, or don't read them and don't comment. Not reading them and commenting about what you assumed they said is the worst of both worlds for you.

Undue influence, favouritism and preferential treatment are forms of corruption and abuses of power. With the flip side for those deemed out of favour. Impartiality and fair treatment lost. Transparent lobbying for equal rights or fair treatment are different. Going through normal channels. And, when they don’t unfairly impact the civil rights of another group of people. However, nowadays, I suppose you could say that good old fashioned corruption has been given a modern ‘progressive’ twist.

Yep, to some extent. Momentum did a lot of damage to Labour and it took a while to sort that out. I don't think though that it's quite the same because Momentum were a socialist movement trying to control a socialist party. What's happening in Victoria is a religious movement trying to control a centre/right party.

So in summary, lobbying is fine when you agree with the aims but when you don't it's corruption and should be banned.

Personally I think the same rules should apply to all. Either lobbying should be entirely banned, or it should be allowed subject to a single set of rules.

I'd love to see an end to the Tufton Street style of opaque lobbying into Government and I hope Labour do something about that but I think they need to sort the budget first.

Not at all what I said Cassie. What did you say again about twisting words? You’d definitely know about that.

It seems so.

And those candidates selected are then democratically voted for. And it would be a very false claim that people with religious beliefs are not welcome in the Liberal Party, as Moira Deeming challenged Ackerman saying at the time.

Tony Abbott went to seminary school! Anthony Albanese was an alter boy! Kevin Rudd was known for his religious beliefs. Religious beliefs can even be held by Prime Ministers.

In this article. Moira Deeming states something like ‘this description does not apply to me’ (my paraphrasing). The accusation about abortion has already been completely dismissed as something she is not interested in campaigning for numerous times now and this has been repeatedly discussed in depth on the threads.

This leaves the accusation about Moira Deeming’s views on gender identity as the remaining ‘extreme’ view. The constant cycling back to her view on gender being extreme or controversial really seems to be the heart of this court case. And it seems highly significant here.

Of course, Moira Deeming was elected by her constituents who would know her views on gender identity. Making her democratically supported for that view.

And if some people view the points raised by Moira Deeming to be extreme (not the language she uses, the substantive points themselves) then I guess that highlights the opinions of those people commenting to readers. And I refer to those people commenting, in media, in court and on MN.

However, her electorate knew her views and voted her to represent them.

Well yes.
My point is I don't think overtly religious motivations in politics are attractive to the majority of voters so a leader like Deeming will be a turn off.

If the aim of a political party is to get elected and enact change that is a problem for that party.

This leaves the accusation about Moira Deeming’s views on gender identity as the remaining ‘extreme’ view. The constant cycling back to her view on gender being extreme or controversial really seems to be the heart of this court case. And it seems highly significant here.

Yes.

Remember Crispin Blunt and the back room ‘deal’ he’d made. Imagine he was so unaware of how dirty that looked that he stood up in parliament and irately admonished other MP’s. That is the sort of stuff. As anti-transparent and undemocratic as you can get.

edited as got spelling of surname wrong.

Yes, @Cailleach1 his actions were quite jaw dropping.

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder

So now you haven't witnessed it, only heard it, it's no longer emotional abuse, just verbal abuse, but it's 'triggering' memories of your own mother & you have no idea of the 'proper channels' to report abuse that's regularly happening within your earshot? Again, it's hard to take this seriously when you're so uncertain about so much of this alleged scenario triggering memories of your own alluded to abusive mother, that fits neatly with a schools programme you consider would be beneficial for these 'abused children' (if only is wasn't full of queer theory/gender ideology).

Call me cynical but if you're own history contains abuse similar to what your neighbours young children are going through, I can't fathom why you'd hesitate to find out the 'proper channels' to report this, particularly as it's happening so often, within earshot, and of a type you find 'triggering'. Maybe your inability to see a safeguarding situation that demands the adults aware do something lends itself to your inability to see the massive red flags with the queer theory/gender ideology saturated schools programmes that have been covered here.

There's no need to be so awful about it. I already feel bad enough. It's a delicate situation - the neighbours are relatively new (less than a year) and I can't simply go around accusing people of things unless I'm absolutely certain. I never said I witnessed anything. Why are you putting 'triggering' in quotation marks? I did not write that in any of my posts.

I don't appreciate you tying this in with my thoughts on the school programs.

@CassieMaddox

I'm sorry that happened to you west

Verbal/emotional abuse is not easy to deal with. In the UK anyway social services/the police are overworked with physical violence and threat to life. I'm not sure what they could do.

Thank you. It doesn't work quite the same way in my country.

I don't appreciate you tying this in with my thoughts on the school programs.

Erm... You did that 😵‍💫

BTW, you can witness something just by hearing it.

I don't appreciate you tying this in with my thoughts on the school programs.

You used it as a reason why the school programme (not just any school programme, that one) was a good thing.

I thought this was the case too.

If you have concerns, you can contact the state Child Protection Services. That is what that department looks after.

Any updates on the court case? Any idea of when we might get a decision? I'm not following all the rich tapestry of discussions on this thread, I just check in occasionally to see how MD is getting on, which isn't obvious.

You tied this in. You claimed this programme was a good idea because a young child would be able to report abuse that you as an adult and repeated witness of don’t want to report. And now you say it is delicate because they are new neighbours and you don’t want to face any repercussions, but a child is fine to report their mother?

Centre right parties in the West generally stem from the Christian tradition so that is not surprising. In fact out whole system stems from the Christian tradition and its various reformations.

Where was I nasty, I thought I was being ever so lovely and nice. Like you. Both of us on here supporting women out there in the man's world fighting a bunch of men who wanted to take out one women on because she is able to think for herself. Even worse the silly woman was standing up against a mad ideology and standing up against the mutilation of children.