Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3

[TheSandgroper]

Following on from busy threads 1 and 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5172553-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-thread-2-from-australia

Keep on discussing, ladies. Change never happens in silence.

Let Women Speak is KJK's project, how about those who don't like her or the project just let her and those who support her/the project get on doing their activism their way?

There are plenty of people I feel are more of a hindrance than a help, but I content myself by rolling my eyes and muting them on social media.

Anyone else taking over the idea & practice of LWS would inevitably curtail the thing that makes it work. The open mic for women to speak freely about something that matters to them. Any one of the other groups that have formed could, at any point, have given women a voice within their orgs, without censorship, giving them the chance to claim democratic representation of women & giving a true reflection of what women think/need/experience & how the GRA impacts any/all of that. But not one of them has done this.

This.

And the questions must be asked: Why did Labor keep Safe Schools and rename it Respectful Relationships? More paedophile apologists. This needs to extend to Labor too.

I believe Let Women Speak is one of the most powerful movements in this fight.

You're quoting the Guardian before any of this kicked off. Before the ABC had to apologise for what it printed. Before Pesutto apologised to Jones and Keen.

I also know that Deeming has the backing of many lesbians and gays in Victoria - the unwoke ones anyway. She has the backing of many in her constituency which is a working class and very ethically diverse - Muslim and Orthodox Christians who are very small C conservative.

When she gave her maiden speech, the Party asked if she needed a 'rent a crowd' to fill the gallery. She said no, she can fill it herself. And she did.

The open mic for women to speak freely about something that matters to them

Any woman - from the left or right or anywhere inbetween of the political spectrum, of any religion or none, of any social class, of any sexuality, of any level of education, of any level of wealth - is that not the very definition of a broad church?

So do I, but women constantly having to defend KJK from being associated with the far-right is dragging it down. She retweeted the Fourteen Words this week for example - it's very tiring and distracts from what the fantastic women at LWS are actually saying.

Yes, of course, because the post I was replying to said "Before she became a member of the Upper House the concerns was about Moira Deeming's stance against abortion"
I was showing this was untrue by posting an article from that time

Any woman - from the left or right or anywhere inbetween of the political spectrum, of any religion or none, of any social class, of any sexuality, of any level of education, of any level of wealth - is that not the very definition of a broad church?

It is to me, yes.

Yes. She retweeted a video by a man called "redpillslinger"
As a feminist I have bad associations with red pillers and no inclination to listen to a word they say

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/14/the-red-pill-reddit-modern-misogyny-manosphere-men

So do I, but women constantly having to defend KJK from being associated with the far-right is dragging it down. She retweeted the Fourteen Words this week for example - it's very tiring and distracts from what the fantastic women at LWS are actually saying.

I can understand your feelings, but I think it needs someone as fearless and outspoken as KJK to put on those events and you have to take the rough with the smooth.

Yes. All women can speak without the usual divide and conquer tactics.

As a feminist I have bad associations with red pillers and no inclination to listen to a word they say

And nor do you have to

And again, anyone who dislikes KJK, what she says, how she says it, what she does/doesn't do with her own activism that fails to meet your own standards or political morals, is free to do whatever they want to provide what KJK does, within your own comfort zone, to save any level of frustration or discomfort with KJK & what she says/does.

It's fascinating how the focus is all about what KJK does/doesn't do because X reasons, yet never about 'I don't personally like this version, so here's mine & why it's different/better/cuts through/achieves more/better/different results'.

I'd love to see how others who criticise can do it better. Genuinely. Let's see how LWS can be done without KJK - not pushing her out of her own activism cos that's not even necessary, but show us the alternative that does what she does, only with all the boundaries/caveats necessary to fit with the purity tests required to be acceptable. Call it Let All Good Women Speak or something.

Awesome!! I do love a stat!

“Any one of the other groups that have formed could, at any point, have given women a voice within their orgs, without censorship, giving them the chance to claim democratic representation of women & giving a true reflection of what women think/need/experience & how the GRA impacts any/all of that. But not one of them has done this.”

This is key!

It is the complete lack of censure and censorship that makes the concept work. And what other women’s groups had even been prepared to support any women with very different political views speak uncensured who is not part of a specific interest group before Venice and Kellie Jay?

None that I know of. There may be now a group now who would but even then, the group I am thinking of has some political limitations.

It is the complete lack of censure and censorship that makes the concept work. And what other women’s groups had even been prepared to support any women with very different political views speak uncensured who is not part of a specific interest group before Venice and Kellie Jay?

Exactly.

It makes me laugh that the very reason it works is because of KJK, but she's the problem with it.

She invented it, she promotes it, she manages it, she leads it. But she's the hindrance!! 🤣

Apparently, apparently it was ‘hyperbole’ that Moira had support from LGB people and even trans people. So thanks for letting us know.

Moira has been condemned on this thread (or last) for making that hyperbolic statement about that support. No evidence was produced that it was a false claim by Moira, of course. Just that she should self-censor her speech when discussing these issues in what should have been a private meeting with the leader of her party. In a meeting with him, her and one other.

She would absolutely know whether she had the support or not because she had been discussing these issues as her role as a councilor. She had not come into politics with no experience. As you say, she did know her constituents. I believe she already knew people such as Holly Lawford Smith who has been upfront about her support.

But apparently, Moira claiming support of LGB people, in her attempt to counter the claims that she was homophobic and transphobic was just hyperbole and she should be more circumspect in her private meetings as an MP.

I mean, it has been said that she says things that no UK politician says or should say, so I guess those who make such judgements shouldn’t bother to hold back their censure of how an Australian MP should or should not use hyperbole to get her point across. Because of course, all Australian politicians and Australian women should be judged and assessed compared to those from the UK.

It's hard to say what is more shocking - the politicians' behaviour or the lack of press interest.

And no one has to fully agree with her at all. There is no prerequisite to agree with any % of what she says or does. Women and girls are still welcome to speak.

What other women’s group at the time of LWS starting allowed that?

What other broad interest women’s group allows that even now?

“Call it Let All Good Women Speak or something.”

Let {only worthy} women speak!

It makes me laugh that the very reason it works is because of KJK, but she's the problem with it.

She invented it, she promotes it, she manages it, she leads it. But she's the hindrance!! 🤣

Apparently so

Let Only the Women Who Have Thought Really Hard About This preapproved list of important topics & Can Show Their Working (and credentials) Speak.

Let Only the Really Cool Women Speak none of the riff raff, please!

Honestly, the possibilities are endless. I'm quite excited to see what this will look like, once the proper feminists have worked out the selection criteria.

If you think you can do it any better, crack on.