Oh no Rosie

[InandOutlander]

I'm so sad to see her go, she was the shining light within the Labour camp.

Private School VAT Raid!

I don't think education should be subject to VAT personally but it's not a hill I'd die on.

Neither do I but that was not the point of my post. Regardless of your view on it, Labour holding up a report as independent for justification of a policy, particularly during an election, when it was written by a close mate is duplicity.

I think you're quite right.

I was just laughing at the typical torygraph turn of phrase

I think you're quite right.

I was just laughing at the typical torygraph turn of phrase

What is it with Labour males and their best men? Wasn’t Keir’s best man the spokesperson for the Olympic shambles or something?

They're all at it

But why even rely on this best mate thing anyway

Labour have just voted down doing an impact assessment on VAT

That’s so poor. Same with the WFA no assessment

No scrutiny. Bunch of cranks

Age UK has done a study on the effects of axing the WFA, saying that "with the Government “either not carrying out an Equality Impact Assessment or choosing not to publish it, Age UK has done the work instead”.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/latest-press/articles/new-age-uk-analysis-shows-2.5-million-older-people-on-low-incomes---a-higher-number-than-first-estimated---are-set-to-lose-their-winter-fuel-payment-and-will-struggle-without-it/

The story is in the Indie and on some regional news sites, but not, as far as I can see, on the BBC website.

Both VAT and WFA show their weakness - they will set their stall by something and refuse to look at any evidence in case it doesn’t support their position.

Now where have we come across that before?

The fact they’ve voted against impact assessments indicates that a) they couldn’t give a shit about the impact - because they think it will only impact the wealthy/privileged, and b) it is purely ideologically motivated.

And to think I actually considered voting for them as the idea of voting Reform turned my stomach.

What about PSED (Public Sector Equality Duty) - the decsion to scrap the WFA definitely affects people with a protected characteristic (Age & possibly also Disability for some) under the Equality Act 2010 and some of the students may also come under the protected characteristic of Disability. I would like my govt to factor these things into decisions it makes and I’d like the decisions made on the basis of impartial peer reviewed data not best mates wee hobby horse report.

Call me an old Spartist, but I'm all for VAT on school fees!

I’m not necessarily opposed to VAT on school fees, I’d just like the govt to carry out an impact assessment under the Equality Act criteria to see if it negatively affects students with disabilities and to also consider means testing it so that it’s paid by people who can definitely afford it.

Added to the arrogant and underhand way they introduced cutting the WFA (ie too cowardly to put this in their manifesto) it the basis on which they have done it.

Anyone in politics (you would hope) and those who use / rely on the benefit system know that decisions like this cause what is known as the cliff edge impact.

As in the Age UK report (thanks for link):
A further 900,000 older people whose incomes are just above the poverty line will also lose the WFP. These people have incomes which are no more than £55 per week above the poverty line.

The cliff edge is even if you are only £1 a week over the level at which you get pension credits, you are not eligible for any extra help at all.

So effectively those just above this level, more likely to be older pensioners (did you know that older pensioners have a lower weekly payment than newer pensionsers) are now going to find it even harder to get by.

Even though not a Labour Party supporter, there is still part of me that thinks a Labour MP would have a more grassroots approach / understanding of how people live their lifes.

On what planet did they think this was okay.

And of course the insult that MPs get a meal allowance that is probably more than some pensions, and of course get a heating allowance for their second home.

Its like something out of a Dicken's novel.

It is not just disability for schools. There is also age, sex, nationality and belief. The belief one I think is particularly important when you look at how schools are indoctrinating our children in gender ideology - should parents who want to chose not to have their child indoctrinated in this way be taxed for making that choice? You would need to choose carefully, though, as many private schools are even worse!

The nationality one is interesting. It turns out several European countries object to the schools they subsidise that follow their curricula in the uk for their nationals, having to pay VAT.

The other thing about WFA is any savings could be wiped by pensioners who had previously not claimed pension credit now doing so.

any savings could be wiped by pensioners who had previously not claimed pension credit now doing so.

I think this as much as anything else seems to indicate that this cut was to signal something (who knows what?) as it makes no sense financially.

There was a really interesting piece on the likelihood of the savings being wiped out on More or Less a week or so ago. The conclusion was that it almost certainly wouldn't work like that. Even if it did... isnt that quite a good thing? A significant increase in the distribution of tax money to the pensioners who actually need it?

A significant increase in the distribution of tax money to the pensioners who actually need it?

Not really as Labour as the new Government could have had a campaign to get those who hadn't applied butcould, sign up for pensions credits.

The problem is that because of the "cliff edge" there are now pensioners who are going to be poorer and have no access to additional help.

Not forgetting that the point of this self inflicted shit show, was that Labour is trying to say the hole in the UK's finances left by the Tories means they have to make cuts.

And the first group to get cut are pensioners, not the fat cats.

And will save hardly anything.

They would have achieved more by making it taxable, ie meaning geuninely wealthy pensioners would face a cut.

No, I agree with that. The corruption stuff is just shit. Though I think we probably need to differentiate between stupid shit, and really nasty shit, even though ideally we'd have neither.

But what it seems to mean is that their basic fiscal policies are pretty similar, and what they have to spend is pretty similar. Which is especially difficult for a party like Labour. Blair fudged it by using credit, at least so far as the NHS, but that's no longer a tenable method and in fact his approach has caused more problems now.

It leaves mainly social policy and hyperbole to distinguish themselves from the others.

If you have any income at all over the tax threshold your tax is deducted straight from your pension before you get it. I have a very small work related pension as well as my state pension, so I pay tax at the basic rate. It is deducted from my pension before I get it, just as my tax was deducted from my salary via PAYE for 40 years. I don't understand why they can't do the same WRT the fuel payment.

I don't understand why they can't do the same WRT the fuel payment.

Exactly.

But this and other suggestions that would be fairer and practical dont even seem to have been considered.

Just making it seem more and more that this was about sending a message.

But what the message is and who for nobody seems to know.

And Labour in group are so arrogant they dont feel they need to in any way explain or justify.

Just adding this here, as was great to listen to- especially after the discussion on here.

Rosie interviewed on Unherd podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5YgwJICwIIsIxMwtss0Rbr?si=pJvFM1NtRciwhda-1D8AIQ

@DameMaud Thanks for posting the link; this interview is fascinating.