Oh no Rosie

[InandOutlander]

I'm so sad to see her go, she was the shining light within the Labour camp.

In terms of Starmer’s (and half the front bench) expensive gifts. We keep hearing that the rules state they are fine. And yet the Bribery Act 2010 suggest it is not fine at all but potentially a criminal offence.

The way this 'debate' has gone feels awfully familiar. One person banging on and on and on with the same point and a load of women from various perspectives putting varied and rational other views and being told off and their input scoffed at or ignored. The technique is one that's been used so many times before on here.

Or, one person putting forward their view, engaging with the people who disagree with them, and then being told off for doing so.

Observing how this section deals with dissent from the accepted narrative has been very interesting.

You've said that many many times on this thread, and it all hinges on your perception that she's lying about her motivation. I don't know that she is, and unless you're telepathic, you don't either.

It's my perception that Keir Starmer declaring his gifts of expensive suits as "office expenses" is pretty close to lying and at least bending the rules. Apart from gifts, I think there's also a decent case that Rachel Reeves breached the Ministerial Code over crony appointments to the civil service.

I don't think you support those things either. You're not one of the Labour stans we have around here who think Starmer can do no wrong. But over the course of 24 pages, you've argued yourself further and further into the position that Rosie Duffield not triggering a by-election is such a monstrously corrupt act that neither she, nor anyone in sympathy with her, is in a position to criticise those things.

I think you should consider whether your belligerence on this one point has painted you into a corner, and maybe you're missing the bigger picture. It's something we can all fall into sometimes.

How rude.
You could do worse than AS noble - she's been here a very long time

Length of time here doesn't give a poster superior credentials to others.

You've said that many many times on this thread, and it all hinges on your perception that she's lying about her motivation. I don't know that she is, and unless you're telepathic, you don't either.

I think it's pretty funny that people expect me to think that holding onto her £93k job didn't factor at all into her decision to campaign as a Labour candidate instead of leaving the party prior to the election. Leaving the party almost immediately afterwards saying that she's been considering it for a long time suggests she certainly gave it some thought.

I mean, she's actually human though, who would be happy at losing a £93k job with nothing to go to at short notice?

I also think she did her constituents dirty, particularly when she blithely spoke for them in her letter and said they'd be fine with what she has done.

She personally set herself up in moral judgement of others when she wrote that letter, so I think it's fair enough to examine her actions on a moral basis.

Have I gone on about it too much? Probably, but on MN I tend to engage with people who engage with what I have written, particularly when they disagree with me. And people have engaged heavily on this thread. Others seem to plop down their opinions and fuck off. Not my thing.

Wikipedia claims that JC is the second most defier (is that a word?) of the whip but provides absolutely nothing to identify number 1. Extensive googling has failed to identify this stand-out MP.

You are right Pluvia. It's an endless vendetta against Rosie Duffield, it seems to me, dressed up as a discussion on The Right Thing To Do.

I don't recall such froth and endless posting about Betrayal when 20 Labour councillors, including the Council Leader, resigned en masse from the Party in Pendle back in April. They didn't like Starmer's stance on the Middle East.

Only 4 of them were up for re election the next month. The rest formed an Independent group and carried on being councillors. I didn't see them berated on The Right Thing To Do or called hypocrites for their stance.

Rosie stayed in the Party arguing the case within it on Womens Rights - despite all the hate and death threats.

It was Starmer's taking of seemingly endless freebies that Rosie resigned over, not his pathetic fence sitting re Women's Rights.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-68733791

It’s in Wikipedia footnote 94 - it was Dennis Skinner in 1st place.

Now I really am going go and read the wedding invite and inheritance threads…

It's an endless vendetta against Rosie Duffield, it seems to me, dressed up as a discussion on The Right Thing To Do.

It is not exactly hidden it is?

Awesome! I have always been a Skinnerite.

For someone who has an 'endless vendetta' against Rosie Duffield, I note that I've apparently only ever posted about her on this thread.

I've got more of an endless vendetta against Jonathan Gullis.

Ooh. I should have had a bet on Dennis Skinner.
What an MP he was.

No, but it does make it less likely they are here with ulterior motives

That's nonsense. You can be a long term agitator as much as a short term one.

I'd also say that, before the election, Wes Streeting had become surprisingly sensible about Cass, the bullshit antisemitism complaint against Rosie had been thrown out, and even Starmer - with considerable ill grace - had said maybe there were some female spaces that natal males shouldn't be admitted to.

So, for someone as profoundly alienated from the party as she was... well, being a Labour member is like being in a bad marriage. You're always looking for a small sign that he's getting his act together.

It's a long time since I've been politically active - it's not compatible with my work - but sometimes I wonder if posters are familiar with what left wing politics is like. Spend long enough in that environment and it will cure you for life of any idea that being on the left is a hallmark of being a nice person.

I've encountered all sorts of bad actors, from rapists and woman-beaters to embezzlers to antisemites to just plain bullies and grifters. And I'm extremely familiar with the DARVO response to confronting bad behaviour.

"Just admit it, you have some petty personal grievance against X." "Why should we believe you about Y stealing from the funds when you disagree with the leadership on [unrelated issue]?" "I heard you're friendly with [political opponent], obviously you're trying to curry favour with them and maybe line up a nice job for yourself."

Politics on the left pretends to be about high principle, but in practice it's mostly about who's in the club and who isn't. Maybe I can be a bit oversensitive on this point. Maybe it prejudices me in favour of imperfect people who call attention to bigger scandals.

But fuck it, I won't apologise for that. Because then they win.

And you'll be able to provide evidence of my long term agitation against Rosie Duffield?

This is a great post.

I suspect the same is true of the politics on the right, in that there comes a point where you have to decide if it's all gone a bit too far to the right. Hopefully the UK won't head in either extreme direction.

As a "leftie" who shares similar concerns to Rosie Duffield about several things, I think her decision to become independent makes a lot of sense. She's clearly made a huge effort to influence from within the party, but presumably there comes a point when it becomes obvious that the "teamed" direction isn't one you can back. And no, I'm not specifically thinking about women's rights or vulnerable children - I'm listening to what Rosie is challenging on fuel bills etc.

Now, where did I allege that? I was just countering Cassie's ridiculous notion that long term poster = some superior being.

Well if someone wants to build a reputation on a site, they could just use the same username for a long time. That seems to work most places.

That's true. Not everyone will have the same opinion as each other of long term posters though, so you'll still get a mixed reception!

@ArabellaScott Sincerely apologise, i clicked next on the register, assuming it would take me to RD's previous expenses claimed, instead, the page was for Ian Duncan Smith who was gifted flights and hotels totalling £20k.... etc etc, my mistake.

Back to RD, so you re happy she took £10k in "election expenses" without actually knowing what she spent them on?

Considering she can claim back all her expenses for pretty much whatever she likes, why did she accept £10k?

Starmer having an Arsenal 'box etc and Rayner going to NY have long since been declared, common knowledge for someone who has high principals about MPs expenses, so why resign over them now?

I admire Rosie Duffield so much but think elected MPs who resign from their party should have a by election.