Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

So one of the Nazis was the son of a police officer. The Nazis were allowed to walk around unimpeded by the police. They had no idea who KJK was. Another Nazi wants to stick it to moira deeming.

And Currently Moria deeming is suspended from the party due to ... what was it again !

Nobody turned up at the Liverpool event last year - other than the women, plus a big crowd of raging, abusive trans activists and Labour party conference attendees.

I think they all came thinking there would be 'Nazis' present. They brought banners and flags with them which suggested this was what they expected. They must have been both disappointed and confused to see just a bunch of normal looking women It didn't stop them from screaming "Fascists go home" for three hours, though - through loud hailers too.

I think a lot of the time the trans activists whip up a frenzy on social media about the 'far right' and then the far right respond by turning up for a bit of aggro...just like the trans activists do.

A member of National Socialist Network, David Hiscox, published an article on his blog denying support for Kellie-Jay Keen. It was also on twitter but that account has long disappeared. And I am not going to check if his site is still up.

'It is good that NSN joined the protest. The rightful pushback against groomer propaganda cannot be allowed to be dominated by radical feminist atheists who will merely reinforce the gains of cultural Marxism.'

I am searching for it but I cannot find a screen shot. I remember seeing a screenshot on twitter but all I can now find is the quote on a Rebel News clip and they have removed the provenance. And I cannot find the statement using advanced search although I was sure it was posted here at the time.

Here it is again mentioned on Reduxx

https://reduxx.info/aus-liberal-party-to-expel-female-politician-for-attending-pro-woman-rally/

No screenshot and

What?

Oh. I don't think that's come up in court but Sewell's statement they were there to "act as a vanguard" has. I'd assume if that was disputed they would have had to call him as a witness which could be entertaining!

Well the chat on the page seems to show you can believe social media about Neo-Nazis when it suits.

Hence why I was interested to see what was admissible in the case.

"Nobody turning up" at a singular event is not relevant to a risk assessment.

What is relevant is:

1. far right wing had turned up before (e.g. Hearts of Oak)
2. there had been some violence at other events from TRAs which would be attractive to the far right in turning up. Like Tommy Robinsons "protect the cenotaph) nonsense.

I'm assuming there was also police intel given the police warned MD about issues.

So yes, I'd say the risk was entirely foreseeable. In fact this is bread and butter of public order policing I'd think.

Also this recording. I'm not quite getting the implications.

The recording of the meeting with deeming was known about for months on end, but only mentioned by pesutto a few weeks ago just prior to the tribunal?

Deemings lawyer says it's because pesutto didn't want it coming up as it contradicted his version. But Pesutto says it does the contrary. But the judge won't allow it to be admitted?

Is that right?

I am searching for it but I cannot find a screen shot. I remember seeing a screenshot on twitter but all I can now find is the quote on a Rebel News clip and they have removed the provenance. And I cannot find the statement using advanced search although I was sure it was posted here at the time.

I remember, they called them wine moms or something.

No. Its been admitted and you can listen to it on the court docs page.
Pesutto didn't ask if there was a recording so didn't find out until 2 weeks before the trial. Prosecution said that was because he didn't want any such call to be "discoverable" (admissible to court) and he agreed. The prosecution said he didn't want it to be discoverable because it showed Deeming's account to be accurate. He disagreed.

You can listen to the recording and judge for yourself but according to some reporting Deeming had to withdraw a lot of her affidavit as a result. I'd read that's why most of her account of the meeting was redacted (see screenshot on other thread)

I actually think the reason that far right people turn up at events is because the Trans activists create such a huge furore on social media in the first instance.

They've been calling women 'fascists' and 'Nazis' for a lot longer than the 'Let Women Speak' events have existed, and before this was even an issue that was written about in the mainstream media.

I know that, because six or seven years ago women were having to meet up in secret for FPFW events, with last minute times and locations, lest raging mobs turn up and try to intimidate and scream us out - or else get venues to cancel our booking.

The trans activists require an overt enemy to rant at. Women just looking like everyday women don't quite cut it. It is always far more gratifying if you get some actual far right thugs turn up too. But the far right thugs are not there to support the women......don't be daft. They're there for the aggro and confrontation with the antifa style mob, and maybe for a bit of police baiting too.

You can think that and you may very well be correct, but unfortunately it's irrelevant to the point that Moira Deeming didn't do risk assessment.
It doesn't matter whose fault it ultimately was in that sense. It only matters they were there and whether she could have predicted they'd be there.

Belated placemark

Pesutto knew about the recordings earlier this year.

SC: When did you find out about them?
JP: Early 24
SC: How did you come to find out?
JP: Mr Southwick mentioned he had a recording.

And again you are ignoring the actual evidence put forward in the case.
Having a quick Google after reading the comments shows the neo-Nazis are absolutely behind Deeming.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/03/28/moira-deeming-neo-nazi-far-right-freedom-movement/

Head of neo-Nazi group National Socialist Network and rally attendee Thomas Sewell shared messages on social media criticising the Liberal Party for the expulsion motion. One featured a news story along with the text: “Liberal Party meltdown”.

Another known white supremacist, who Crikey has chosen not to identify to avoid further amplification, but whose online pseudonym contains a reference to the 51 people killed in the Christchurch massacre, shared a video of Liberal Senator Alex Antic titled “Moira Deeming did nothing wrong”.

There is other stuff out there reporting Sewell's position on the case and why it suits him if MD wins, but the source is a bit sus so I'm not linking. It does sound like the sort of thing a Neo Nazi would think though. The benefits they get from leeching on a legitimate movement.

Of course they attach themselves to popular causes. Actual Nazis did that in Germany too. The cause they attach themselves to is by the by, though.....they just hate antifa people/communists/radical leftists and they'll go where the action is.

Believing in the reality of biological sex is a pretty widespread/mainstream position which transcends traditional Left/right politics. It is just that Social Justice Warriors/trans activists and the like don't represent true left wing values - they represent something else altogether.

YES exactly which is why I get so annoyed about posters generalising to "the left" when they mean SJWs/TRAs.

Unfortunately, this style of whatever it is - U.S style identity politics - has infected many people; especially younger people who' identify as' progressives ( American terminology) or as Left wing' - plus a good few cabinet members too. Including in Australia. Which is a big problem.

@Helleofabore @Datun receipts

https://x.com/dylanb1979/status/1647602287089467393?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

https://x.com/lumisayyyss_hi/status/1639201631505113088?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

x.com/lauren_vasiliou/status/1638646536631631872?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

It is. It's why I've found the push to insist that "only the right can deal with this" so concerning as it's polarising and stops people engaging, which paradoxically leaves people who are more left leaning less likely to support changes to protect women and therefore damages our chances. The divisiveness also means GCconcerns become ripe for leeching on by conspiracy theorists and people with bad intentions.
I'd far rather see it as non-partisan and as you say, a concern for many people regardless of political persuasion.

The strange thing is, Pesutto could have just apologised when it became obvious what had happened. But he didn't, and here we are.

He has failed to impress me.

Thank you Ereshkigalangcleg.

There was a statement from a women's organisation posted on the first thread which basically claimed that Pesutto used the excuse of the social media furore to do what he already wanted to do - get rid of MD, but the real reason was her Sex realist feminism. So he was never going to backtrack, unfortunately.

That’s what I think is the case.

Her belief that women exist and matter appears to have been very inconvenient.