Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Free Speech Union meeting evicted from Brighton pub

230 replies

raspb · 18/09/2024 09:24

I don't think there's already a thread on this. Apologies if so. I just read this report on Julie Birchill's Facebook page:

Laura King writes:

Whole Free Speech Union meeting evicted from the Southern Belle pub tonight after only one speaker.

Scandalous. Will be covered by Brighton and Hove News.

Police report just filed.

We had a pre-booked meeting in the rear of the pub, almost completely screened off from the rest of the pub - on a quiet Tuesday evening - for an evening of speeches on various topics.
After 15 minutes or so of the first speaker - a retired teacher - discussing her concerns about child safeguarding in schools, a number of security guards appeared. I went to talk to them and see what the problem was. They wouldn't be specific but asked that I talked to the Landlord. I spoke to a tall young man who looked to be in his early 20s who didn't seem like the landlord and explained that a former teacher was talking about child safeguarding in schools. He didn't say much and I pointed out the speaker giving the talk was LGBT herself, if they were worried about any offence being caused and that we were not there to cause offence. I thought I had dealt with the situation but within a few minutes there was a rush of security guards coming into the room and demanding that we left. I said we had just finished listening to that speech and that there were two more on completely different subjects but they said the Landlord had said we had to leave. One of them tried to grab the speaker and drag it out of the room, which was still plugged in. I tried to stop him pointing out it was my property and he had no right to touch it or damage it. He grabbed my wrist hard and still tried to seize the speaker. I shouted at him that he was assaulting me and I was going to report him to the Police and he let me go. My partner got hustled out of the room physically and they tried to take his drink off him when he left to go and try and find the manager. Various people were in shock and we refused to leave and politely debated with the security guards, who kept insisting we had to leave, even though it was a public house and we are the public, and there had been no incidents, which the security guards freely admitted was true. in fact one even said he had 'better things to do on a Tuesday night than break up a room of mostly middle-aged people NOT causing any trouble.' We stood our ground for a few minutes while many people taped and filmed the exchanges with Paragon Security. A few people tried to ring the Police but then found out they were refusing to come out. 'Hate speech' was mentioned by a Security guard so I challenged him to prove his allegation and pointed out the room was actually full of intelligent peace-loving people, not haters. Plus there were many LGBT individuals in the audience not being offended. Most of us insisted on finishing our drinks before leaving and then people hung about outside as they couldn't believe what had just happened marvelling to each other that they no longer lived in a free country. The local media was contacted. Someone had shouted out 'Let's go to The Wick' but when we got there Paragon Security were already there and denying admission. This is double harassment of innocent individuals, who were not even trying to have a meeting at this point, but just socialising because it was far too early to call it a night and go home. So if the landlord of The Southern Belle had us evicted, what right did that landlord have to prevent us being admitted to another pub? This counts as harassment by the Southern Belle management via Paragon Security twice over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
TealTraybake · 18/09/2024 09:30

Same people who managed to oust Kathleen Stock no doubt. Thank goodness at least that the rancid guy Lloyd Russell Moyes isn’t a Brighton MP anymore, at least.

AutumnCrow · 18/09/2024 09:34

Bloody hell.

I’ve been saying for a long time now that people may have to start meeting in private homes or privately purchased properties, like early non-conformist chapel goers and suffragists.

Forget ‘public houses’ and ‘bookable venues’. While they struggle to stay afloat financially, they decide to exclude the paying public … they are lost. Fuck ‘em.

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2024 10:52

This is quite disturbing, particularly the fact that they followed the group to another pub - how could they have the authority to do that?

Also, a big tactical mistake to intimidate and silence a group that employs lawyers who are expert in free speech and equality legislation.

JFDIYOLO · 18/09/2024 11:13

One of them grabbed a woman's arm, then they followed them to their substitute venue. Surely this is assault

Tillow4ever · 18/09/2024 11:18

Ignoring everything else, unfortunately pubs are well within their legal rights to refuse to serve anyone and can kick anyone out that they wish. They can also refuse to allow entry to anyone.

There are likely to be exceptions if it can be proven that the reason for those actions is due to a protected characteristic... key word being proven.

I'm sorry you were treated so badly - I have no idea why any pub would choose to kick out paying customers in the current environment for pubs to get honest! Sounds ridiculous to me.

poppyzbrite4 · 18/09/2024 11:29

This doesn't make any sense. Why would a pub kick out some people who wanted to talk about Free Speech?

But a pp is right, a landlord can refuse anyone entry for any reason, it's a private business and they don't have to justify themselves.

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2024 11:31

But a pp is right, a landlord can refuse anyone entry for any reason, it's a private business and they don't have to justify themselves.

This is simply not true. Pubs are as bound by the law as any other provider of goods or services. A pub cannot throw out a black person because they are black, for example, or a gay man because he is gay. Of course they can claim they are throwing people out because they are noisy or troublesome, but if the person thrown out has evidence that they were thrown out because of their protected characteristic, then the pub will be found to have broken the law.

poppyzbrite4 · 18/09/2024 11:53

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2024 11:31

But a pp is right, a landlord can refuse anyone entry for any reason, it's a private business and they don't have to justify themselves.

This is simply not true. Pubs are as bound by the law as any other provider of goods or services. A pub cannot throw out a black person because they are black, for example, or a gay man because he is gay. Of course they can claim they are throwing people out because they are noisy or troublesome, but if the person thrown out has evidence that they were thrown out because of their protected characteristic, then the pub will be found to have broken the law.

There is a common law right to refuse service to anyone the landlord chooses. However, the refusal can't explicitly be on the grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation, religion or belief.

If the landlord kicked them out citing it was because they were disabled for example, there would be grounds to take them to court. Were any reasons cited for kicking them out and are they really going to take this to court?

ArabellaScott · 18/09/2024 12:26

Absolutely shocking. Not least because they seem to have followed the group and further harassed them:

From Julie Raven:

'Tonight we went to a Free Speech Union meeting at the Southern Belle pub in Hove, a private meeting in a hired room. We were quiet and well-behaved. (Even me!) Less than an hour in, a private security firm called PAGODA made us leave because we talked about gender reality. They then followed us to our next meeting place in a pub and made us break up the regrouping of maybe ten people. Absolutely amazed at the reality of thought-policing in this country right now.'

ArabellaScott · 18/09/2024 12:28

'Also, a big tactical mistake to intimidate and silence a group that employs lawyers who are expert in free speech and equality legislation.'

They couldn't have picked a more apposite group to threaten, abuse, harass and assault.

NecessaryScene · 18/09/2024 12:32

They couldn't have picked a more apposite group to threaten, abuse, harass and assault.

Quite. Makes the pubs merely chucking LGB Alliance supporters out look quite unambitious.

Not quite sure how you could top this.

ArabellaScott · 18/09/2024 14:45

NecessaryScene · 18/09/2024 12:32

They couldn't have picked a more apposite group to threaten, abuse, harass and assault.

Quite. Makes the pubs merely chucking LGB Alliance supporters out look quite unambitious.

Not quite sure how you could top this.

Echoes of that fundraising scam that purported to be from a police benevolent association? I reported one years ago. Police were not amused.

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 14:59

raspb · 18/09/2024 09:24

I don't think there's already a thread on this. Apologies if so. I just read this report on Julie Birchill's Facebook page:

Laura King writes:

Whole Free Speech Union meeting evicted from the Southern Belle pub tonight after only one speaker.

Scandalous. Will be covered by Brighton and Hove News.

Police report just filed.

We had a pre-booked meeting in the rear of the pub, almost completely screened off from the rest of the pub - on a quiet Tuesday evening - for an evening of speeches on various topics.
After 15 minutes or so of the first speaker - a retired teacher - discussing her concerns about child safeguarding in schools, a number of security guards appeared. I went to talk to them and see what the problem was. They wouldn't be specific but asked that I talked to the Landlord. I spoke to a tall young man who looked to be in his early 20s who didn't seem like the landlord and explained that a former teacher was talking about child safeguarding in schools. He didn't say much and I pointed out the speaker giving the talk was LGBT herself, if they were worried about any offence being caused and that we were not there to cause offence. I thought I had dealt with the situation but within a few minutes there was a rush of security guards coming into the room and demanding that we left. I said we had just finished listening to that speech and that there were two more on completely different subjects but they said the Landlord had said we had to leave. One of them tried to grab the speaker and drag it out of the room, which was still plugged in. I tried to stop him pointing out it was my property and he had no right to touch it or damage it. He grabbed my wrist hard and still tried to seize the speaker. I shouted at him that he was assaulting me and I was going to report him to the Police and he let me go. My partner got hustled out of the room physically and they tried to take his drink off him when he left to go and try and find the manager. Various people were in shock and we refused to leave and politely debated with the security guards, who kept insisting we had to leave, even though it was a public house and we are the public, and there had been no incidents, which the security guards freely admitted was true. in fact one even said he had 'better things to do on a Tuesday night than break up a room of mostly middle-aged people NOT causing any trouble.' We stood our ground for a few minutes while many people taped and filmed the exchanges with Paragon Security. A few people tried to ring the Police but then found out they were refusing to come out. 'Hate speech' was mentioned by a Security guard so I challenged him to prove his allegation and pointed out the room was actually full of intelligent peace-loving people, not haters. Plus there were many LGBT individuals in the audience not being offended. Most of us insisted on finishing our drinks before leaving and then people hung about outside as they couldn't believe what had just happened marvelling to each other that they no longer lived in a free country. The local media was contacted. Someone had shouted out 'Let's go to The Wick' but when we got there Paragon Security were already there and denying admission. This is double harassment of innocent individuals, who were not even trying to have a meeting at this point, but just socialising because it was far too early to call it a night and go home. So if the landlord of The Southern Belle had us evicted, what right did that landlord have to prevent us being admitted to another pub? This counts as harassment by the Southern Belle management via Paragon Security twice over.

This is outrageous! Peter Kyle needs to know about this.

Grammarnut · 18/09/2024 15:01

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2024 11:31

But a pp is right, a landlord can refuse anyone entry for any reason, it's a private business and they don't have to justify themselves.

This is simply not true. Pubs are as bound by the law as any other provider of goods or services. A pub cannot throw out a black person because they are black, for example, or a gay man because he is gay. Of course they can claim they are throwing people out because they are noisy or troublesome, but if the person thrown out has evidence that they were thrown out because of their protected characteristic, then the pub will be found to have broken the law.

The landlord can refuse service to whomever he chooses. A public house is not open unfettered to the public but to the public the landlord chooses to let in. It's his house in which he conducts his business. No, he can't exclude someone for being the 'wrong' colour or 'wrong' sexual orientation, but you have to prove he did this and it's difficult.
I don't understand why a landlord would throw out a group talking about child safeguarding - and then I realised it was in Brighton.

lifeturnsonadime · 18/09/2024 15:03

Grammarnut · 18/09/2024 15:01

The landlord can refuse service to whomever he chooses. A public house is not open unfettered to the public but to the public the landlord chooses to let in. It's his house in which he conducts his business. No, he can't exclude someone for being the 'wrong' colour or 'wrong' sexual orientation, but you have to prove he did this and it's difficult.
I don't understand why a landlord would throw out a group talking about child safeguarding - and then I realised it was in Brighton.

Show quote history

This is interesting , holding gender critical views is a protected belief, so theoretically if he’s refused on that basis there could be an argument.

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 15:09

raspb · 18/09/2024 09:24

I don't think there's already a thread on this. Apologies if so. I just read this report on Julie Birchill's Facebook page:

Laura King writes:

Whole Free Speech Union meeting evicted from the Southern Belle pub tonight after only one speaker.

Scandalous. Will be covered by Brighton and Hove News.

Police report just filed.

We had a pre-booked meeting in the rear of the pub, almost completely screened off from the rest of the pub - on a quiet Tuesday evening - for an evening of speeches on various topics.
After 15 minutes or so of the first speaker - a retired teacher - discussing her concerns about child safeguarding in schools, a number of security guards appeared. I went to talk to them and see what the problem was. They wouldn't be specific but asked that I talked to the Landlord. I spoke to a tall young man who looked to be in his early 20s who didn't seem like the landlord and explained that a former teacher was talking about child safeguarding in schools. He didn't say much and I pointed out the speaker giving the talk was LGBT herself, if they were worried about any offence being caused and that we were not there to cause offence. I thought I had dealt with the situation but within a few minutes there was a rush of security guards coming into the room and demanding that we left. I said we had just finished listening to that speech and that there were two more on completely different subjects but they said the Landlord had said we had to leave. One of them tried to grab the speaker and drag it out of the room, which was still plugged in. I tried to stop him pointing out it was my property and he had no right to touch it or damage it. He grabbed my wrist hard and still tried to seize the speaker. I shouted at him that he was assaulting me and I was going to report him to the Police and he let me go. My partner got hustled out of the room physically and they tried to take his drink off him when he left to go and try and find the manager. Various people were in shock and we refused to leave and politely debated with the security guards, who kept insisting we had to leave, even though it was a public house and we are the public, and there had been no incidents, which the security guards freely admitted was true. in fact one even said he had 'better things to do on a Tuesday night than break up a room of mostly middle-aged people NOT causing any trouble.' We stood our ground for a few minutes while many people taped and filmed the exchanges with Paragon Security. A few people tried to ring the Police but then found out they were refusing to come out. 'Hate speech' was mentioned by a Security guard so I challenged him to prove his allegation and pointed out the room was actually full of intelligent peace-loving people, not haters. Plus there were many LGBT individuals in the audience not being offended. Most of us insisted on finishing our drinks before leaving and then people hung about outside as they couldn't believe what had just happened marvelling to each other that they no longer lived in a free country. The local media was contacted. Someone had shouted out 'Let's go to The Wick' but when we got there Paragon Security were already there and denying admission. This is double harassment of innocent individuals, who were not even trying to have a meeting at this point, but just socialising because it was far too early to call it a night and go home. So if the landlord of The Southern Belle had us evicted, what right did that landlord have to prevent us being admitted to another pub? This counts as harassment by the Southern Belle management via Paragon Security twice over.

Are they aware that the pub in Dublin is being sued by a group of GCs including for assault?
The irony that its a Free Speech Union meeting is eyewatering.
meanwhile the pub is struggling for staff
https://www.thesouthernbelle.co.uk/jobs.html

https://www.thesouthernbelle.co.uk/jobs.html

TorghunKhan · 18/09/2024 15:10

Of ALL the people to pick a fight with this is comedically the absolute worst!!

TorghunKhan · 18/09/2024 15:10

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 15:09

Are they aware that the pub in Dublin is being sued by a group of GCs including for assault?
The irony that its a Free Speech Union meeting is eyewatering.
meanwhile the pub is struggling for staff
https://www.thesouthernbelle.co.uk/jobs.html

Show quote history

I hope they also get all the reviews they deserve https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g652380-d648066-Reviews-The_Southern_Belle-Hove_East_Sussex_England.html

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2024 15:11

If the landlord kicked them out citing it was because they were disabled for example, there would be grounds to take them to court. Were any reasons cited for kicking them out and are they really going to take this to court?

The OP mentions "hate speech". My understanding is that the episode was filmed by some people on their phones, so if they were chucked out because of their gender-critical belief, which is legally protected, and they have filmed evidence that that was the reason, then they have a strong case.

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 15:12

Grammarnut · 18/09/2024 15:01

The landlord can refuse service to whomever he chooses. A public house is not open unfettered to the public but to the public the landlord chooses to let in. It's his house in which he conducts his business. No, he can't exclude someone for being the 'wrong' colour or 'wrong' sexual orientation, but you have to prove he did this and it's difficult.
I don't understand why a landlord would throw out a group talking about child safeguarding - and then I realised it was in Brighton.

Show quote history

Thats clearly wrong as Glinner and a crowd of GCs are currently suing a Dublin Pub for the same.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/father-ted-writer-among-23-people-taking-discrimination-action-against-robinson-s-bar-in-belfast/ar-AA1qFeDW

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/father-ted-writer-among-23-people-taking-discrimination-action-against-robinson-s-bar-in-belfast/ar-AA1qFeDW

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 15:14

Grammarnut · 18/09/2024 15:01

The landlord can refuse service to whomever he chooses. A public house is not open unfettered to the public but to the public the landlord chooses to let in. It's his house in which he conducts his business. No, he can't exclude someone for being the 'wrong' colour or 'wrong' sexual orientation, but you have to prove he did this and it's difficult.
I don't understand why a landlord would throw out a group talking about child safeguarding - and then I realised it was in Brighton.

Show quote history

No they cant, its a protected belief.
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/father-ted-writer-among-23-people-taking-discrimination-action-against-robinson-s-bar-in-belfast/ar-AA1qFeDW

ArabellaScott · 18/09/2024 15:17

Yep, just the same as refusing someone for being a Christian, or a Muslim, or an atheist.

PriOn1 · 18/09/2024 15:25

Thank you again to Maya Forstater for establishing that a belief in the reality of sex is a protected characteristic.

I hope the Free Speech Union take both pubs to the cleaners. Brighton seems like one of the most prejudiced cities in the UK.

RaspberryParade · 18/09/2024 15:38

TorghunKhan · 18/09/2024 14:32

This has peaked me to become a member
https://freespeechunion.org/join/

And I live locally to this.

Just wrote to Toby about this. A class action like in Dublin is needed asap.

Swipe left for the next trending thread