Free Speech Union meeting evicted from Brighton pub

[raspb]

I don't think there's already a thread on this. Apologies if so. I just read this report on Julie Birchill's Facebook page:

Laura King writes:

Whole Free Speech Union meeting evicted from the Southern Belle pub tonight after only one speaker.

Scandalous. Will be covered by Brighton and Hove News.

Police report just filed.

We had a pre-booked meeting in the rear of the pub, almost completely screened off from the rest of the pub - on a quiet Tuesday evening - for an evening of speeches on various topics.
After 15 minutes or so of the first speaker - a retired teacher - discussing her concerns about child safeguarding in schools, a number of security guards appeared. I went to talk to them and see what the problem was. They wouldn't be specific but asked that I talked to the Landlord. I spoke to a tall young man who looked to be in his early 20s who didn't seem like the landlord and explained that a former teacher was talking about child safeguarding in schools. He didn't say much and I pointed out the speaker giving the talk was LGBT herself, if they were worried about any offence being caused and that we were not there to cause offence. I thought I had dealt with the situation but within a few minutes there was a rush of security guards coming into the room and demanding that we left. I said we had just finished listening to that speech and that there were two more on completely different subjects but they said the Landlord had said we had to leave. One of them tried to grab the speaker and drag it out of the room, which was still plugged in. I tried to stop him pointing out it was my property and he had no right to touch it or damage it. He grabbed my wrist hard and still tried to seize the speaker. I shouted at him that he was assaulting me and I was going to report him to the Police and he let me go. My partner got hustled out of the room physically and they tried to take his drink off him when he left to go and try and find the manager. Various people were in shock and we refused to leave and politely debated with the security guards, who kept insisting we had to leave, even though it was a public house and we are the public, and there had been no incidents, which the security guards freely admitted was true. in fact one even said he had 'better things to do on a Tuesday night than break up a room of mostly middle-aged people NOT causing any trouble.' We stood our ground for a few minutes while many people taped and filmed the exchanges with Paragon Security. A few people tried to ring the Police but then found out they were refusing to come out. 'Hate speech' was mentioned by a Security guard so I challenged him to prove his allegation and pointed out the room was actually full of intelligent peace-loving people, not haters. Plus there were many LGBT individuals in the audience not being offended. Most of us insisted on finishing our drinks before leaving and then people hung about outside as they couldn't believe what had just happened marvelling to each other that they no longer lived in a free country. The local media was contacted. Someone had shouted out 'Let's go to The Wick' but when we got there Paragon Security were already there and denying admission. This is double harassment of innocent individuals, who were not even trying to have a meeting at this point, but just socialising because it was far too early to call it a night and go home. So if the landlord of The Southern Belle had us evicted, what right did that landlord have to prevent us being admitted to another pub? This counts as harassment by the Southern Belle management via Paragon Security twice over.

As Orwell said, I think, the point about free speech is that it may offend. It is intended to offend verbally rather than giving an opponent a punch on the nose.

There’s nothing right wing about freedom of speech. That the authoritarian press and politicians have used propaganda to tell you they are - says all you need to know.

Were you there? Or do you have access to a reliable first-hand eye-witness account you can share with us to demonstrate that this group of mostly middle-aged and older people, sitting quietly listening to a former teacher who is apparently a lesbian (remember that, the L in LGBTQ+?), talking about the safeguarding of children, were in fact all dangerous hate criminals who needed to be ejected from one pub by force, and physically prevented from entering another one?

That's my local! I'm amazed about the security guards as they don't have them there. Not disputing the account but it just doesn't sound like the pub I know.

Hope it won’t be your local any more….

Yet another thread where bodies that allow free speech are deemed to be too right wing without the ‘left’ coming up with a viable alternative where free speech can be allowed.

I’m starting to really despair with the left. I’m naturally left leaning but they need to stop being so authoritarian when it comes to accommodating women who want to speak (ffs) about matters that affect us.

Just a thought - given that this group were a bunch of middle aged, middle class people quietly drinking their drinks and listening to a talk on child safeguarding, I would have thought it was comparatively straightforward to prove that they were chucked out for having views the pub staff disapproved of (and hence to prove discrimination, thank you Maya, we are WORIADS). After all what else could it have been? Possession of an offensive shirt? Wearing M&S elasticated waist trousers in public? They were in the middle of their event, presumably they had properly booked in, they had paid for drinks. It is a genuinely weird action on the pub's part unless they were loud/violent etc. Drinking a white wine spritzer and nodding quietly doesn't cut it.

I can see why it might be difficult to prove generally, if only one person were thrown out, but a group and under these circumstances?

Hope they sue their socks off.

Write up in the telegraph archive.is/2024.09.18-172320/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/18/free-speech-group-kicked-out-children-shouldnt-taught-trans/

'The landlord is said to have disapproved of one of the speeches regarding the teaching of gender ideology in schools and asked security guards to eject the entire group.'

'The first talk was by a retired teacher, who said “gender ideology” - the belief that gender is not binary and can differ from your assigned sex at birth - should not be taught to schoolchildren.

The Telegraph understands the woman, in her fifties, spoke for 15 minutes, arguing that parents should ask questions about what their children are taught in sex education, and should see the material they are given.
As she was taking questions, five security guards entered and asked the group to leave, it is claimed'

FSU are apolitical.

Well that’s not true. The nice, agreeable women ( and men) who said, ‘hey, can we talk about this and the implications for women and same sex attracted people’ when gender ideology came along, did need their speech defending.

I feel like this too. I guess I am politically left as I believe in a large state, but I can no longer call myself left wing as I am appalled by the intolerance, prejudice, close mindedness and hatred of diversity of the left.
That the left have decided that people being able to openly debate ideas so that as a society we can discern which are the good ideas and which are not ( and this is what free speech principles exist to do) is ‘right wing’ , and therefore bad, tells me everything I need to know about the left and how I can no longer support it.

Did you see how 23 people in Dublin including Glinner are suing for the exact same thing.
This is just one of umpteen posts linking to an article which the poster clearly hasn't read - in fact, apparently hasn't even read the link, where it says
B-E-L-F-A-S-T not D-U-B-L-I-N.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/father-ted-writer-among-23-people-taking-discrimination-action-against-robinson-s-bar-in-belfast/ar-AA1qFeDW

For those trying again to make it a left/right thing, this is not America.
Most of the fightback comes from left wing women, this has been the case for years.
The first to call it out were left wing lesbians in the 90s and in the news via Julie Bindel in 2004.
Moreover loads of that group have leftwing sympathies.
The authoritarians trying to suppress them, not so much.
Anyway this will develope further.

cheers

I was one who said Dublin, but not because I hadnt read it, but because I was speed typing and just subsituted Dublin without thinking.
You are right and I apologise for the error. But familiar with the case and saw all the footage at the time.

I am certainly not saying that concern about the effect of trans rights on women is a right wing issue or campaign. Merely that it could be taken over and exploited by right wing campaigners.

I think you’ve misunderstood my post.

Left wing women want a voice but they are not being given one.

I don’t think women’s rights are a right wing belief I’m just disappointed that such suggestion is enabled by the failure of the left to protect freedom of speech adequately and to deal with the fact that gender ideology is , mainly, a left wing ideal.

No neither, I just merely commented that there could be 2 sides to the story

Yes we have heard it a 1000x in the last 7 or 8 years from those who would undermine rather than help. But thanks for the 'warning' that boat sailed a long time ago.
And what would you propose, we curl up in a ball and play dead?

If people are too stupid or disengenious to acknowledge the distinction then that cant be helped.
I also agree with the 'far right' that the world is round and the sky is blue.

Well I only lived in a pub as the daughter of a landlord and landlady for 28 years, so please - continue to explain to me what my lived knowledge was.

Protected characteristics are the only thing that might change it - although proving the discrimination is the tricky part of course!

Also, that article is an Irish pub, located in Ireland. We aren’t talking about the same legal system and rules as we are in England.

I’d LOVE to know the “other side”

I rather think the landlord will have to prove they did not throw them out because they believe in sex.
this won’t go away it’s just what the free speech union thrives on. That pub is fucked.

I wondered what the hell had happened when I got an email asking for feedback on the event (obviously sent to email list.) Hope the FSU gets involved.