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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Free Speech Union meeting evicted from Brighton pub

230 replies

raspb · 18/09/2024 09:24

I don't think there's already a thread on this. Apologies if so. I just read this report on Julie Birchill's Facebook page:

Laura King writes:

Whole Free Speech Union meeting evicted from the Southern Belle pub tonight after only one speaker.

Scandalous. Will be covered by Brighton and Hove News.

Police report just filed.

We had a pre-booked meeting in the rear of the pub, almost completely screened off from the rest of the pub - on a quiet Tuesday evening - for an evening of speeches on various topics.
After 15 minutes or so of the first speaker - a retired teacher - discussing her concerns about child safeguarding in schools, a number of security guards appeared. I went to talk to them and see what the problem was. They wouldn't be specific but asked that I talked to the Landlord. I spoke to a tall young man who looked to be in his early 20s who didn't seem like the landlord and explained that a former teacher was talking about child safeguarding in schools. He didn't say much and I pointed out the speaker giving the talk was LGBT herself, if they were worried about any offence being caused and that we were not there to cause offence. I thought I had dealt with the situation but within a few minutes there was a rush of security guards coming into the room and demanding that we left. I said we had just finished listening to that speech and that there were two more on completely different subjects but they said the Landlord had said we had to leave. One of them tried to grab the speaker and drag it out of the room, which was still plugged in. I tried to stop him pointing out it was my property and he had no right to touch it or damage it. He grabbed my wrist hard and still tried to seize the speaker. I shouted at him that he was assaulting me and I was going to report him to the Police and he let me go. My partner got hustled out of the room physically and they tried to take his drink off him when he left to go and try and find the manager. Various people were in shock and we refused to leave and politely debated with the security guards, who kept insisting we had to leave, even though it was a public house and we are the public, and there had been no incidents, which the security guards freely admitted was true. in fact one even said he had 'better things to do on a Tuesday night than break up a room of mostly middle-aged people NOT causing any trouble.' We stood our ground for a few minutes while many people taped and filmed the exchanges with Paragon Security. A few people tried to ring the Police but then found out they were refusing to come out. 'Hate speech' was mentioned by a Security guard so I challenged him to prove his allegation and pointed out the room was actually full of intelligent peace-loving people, not haters. Plus there were many LGBT individuals in the audience not being offended. Most of us insisted on finishing our drinks before leaving and then people hung about outside as they couldn't believe what had just happened marvelling to each other that they no longer lived in a free country. The local media was contacted. Someone had shouted out 'Let's go to The Wick' but when we got there Paragon Security were already there and denying admission. This is double harassment of innocent individuals, who were not even trying to have a meeting at this point, but just socialising because it was far too early to call it a night and go home. So if the landlord of The Southern Belle had us evicted, what right did that landlord have to prevent us being admitted to another pub? This counts as harassment by the Southern Belle management via Paragon Security twice over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/09/2024 13:46

You mean "Actual Owen Jones" Grin

MumBoss99 · 23/09/2024 16:51

positive ones I should add.....

Puppylucky · 24/09/2024 12:00

Not the ones I'm reading @MumBoss99 . I take back my earlier challenges as something off clearly did happen and from the sound of it the whole pub ended up being cleared.

MelodyMalone · 24/09/2024 13:13

MumBoss99 · 23/09/2024 16:51

positive ones I should add.....

"Very comfortable atmosphere for queer people", says reviewer who almost certainly has never set foot in the place 😄

LoremIpsumCici · 24/09/2024 18:41

RaspberryParade · 22/09/2024 18:36

Hello Rip Van Winkle how was your sleep?
You have missed so much.
Kind of you to tell us about Free Speech though, but we have already covered that with Maya Forstater etc while you were 'resting'.

Edited

I am overwhelmed by your kind and understanding reception to my questions. May you receive the same treatment if ever you are seriously ill for a few years.

LoremIpsumCici · 24/09/2024 18:44

TempestTost · 23/09/2024 00:06

I'd also note - racist public speech isn't necessarily hate speech. Prohibited hate speech is a pretty high bar. Someone could go around all day shouting that white people were all oppressive jerks, or gay men were all trollops, and it would be rude and dumb, but not hate speech.

That is true, but don’t they have a new thing called “non crime hate incident” so the police can record offensive speech that isn’t technically criminal hate speech but then still have this list with your name on it and hold it against you?

AutumnCrow · 24/09/2024 19:51

LoremIpsumCici · 24/09/2024 18:44

That is true, but don’t they have a new thing called “non crime hate incident” so the police can record offensive speech that isn’t technically criminal hate speech but then still have this list with your name on it and hold it against you?

Have a look at Harry Miller's case, and subsequent legal actions and political decisions. You'll find Harry Miller (nn 'Harry the Owl') on Twitter/X, for starters.

My favourite quote from that case was the Judge saying: "In this country we have never had a Cheka, a Gestapo or a Stasi. We have never lived in an Orwellian society."

AutumnCrow · 24/09/2024 19:52

BBC report from Feb 2020:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51501202

TempestTost · 24/09/2024 23:13

LoremIpsumCici · 24/09/2024 18:44

That is true, but don’t they have a new thing called “non crime hate incident” so the police can record offensive speech that isn’t technically criminal hate speech but then still have this list with your name on it and hold it against you?

It seems so.

But I think people need to understand that hate speech as defined in the law isn't just saying mean things, even really mean nasty things, it's very specific.

LoremIpsumCici · 25/09/2024 00:02

@AutumnCrow
That is good news! Thank you for sharing. It never set right with me that the police could keep a record of these noncrime incidents.

I am really happy to see it’s been legally challenged,

TempestTost · 25/09/2024 00:59

IwantToRetire · 23/09/2024 00:51

But the question shouldn’t be about why the right has become forefront in upholding the principles of free speech, but why the left has not.

https://freespeechunion.org/when-did-the-left-stop-owning-free-speech/

I find this a bit of a weird article. Or maybe just too naive.

Sure, some moderate worker-activist types in the UK were of the left and had liberal democratic views on free speech.

But anyone from the former Soviet States, China, Cuba, Venezuela, will tell you there is no particular reason to associate leftism as an ideology with free speech, and there have been many significant examples of socialist states that violently suppressed free speech and free thought.

I realize she says that it's not a left-right issue, and she's correct, but it just seems historically ignorant to have any kind of surprise that this kind of thinking could take hold on the left.

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2024 01:58

the former Soviet States, China, Cuba, Venezuela,

This just isn't relevant to the article.

Clearly most people, and this article are about the UK.

All of this is about the complete up side down world the UK has become.

Its not about some philosophical or historical analysis of the intrisinc values of socialism.

This is about real life, here and now in the UK.

The what were up until quite recently the norms of how UK society functioned appears to have been totally captured.

And obviously again within the UK context, to have someone on the left point this out.

In most other instances you just get your a terf, your right wing and shouldn't have a voice.

TempestTost · 26/09/2024 00:11

I disagree, it's totally relevant.

The modern left in the UK is not somehow disconnected from other socialist movements.

It is bizarre for someone who has supposedly involved long term with this political landscape to not be well aware of the ways in which the left can become overtly opposed to free speech. Which is exactly what has happened.

Anyone who has read Orwell, which most do as teens if they are at all interested in politics, should recognize this.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 28/09/2024 02:52

MelodyMalone · 24/09/2024 13:13

"Very comfortable atmosphere for queer people", says reviewer who almost certainly has never set foot in the place 😄

Someone has really got it in for that pub! 😂

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 18:06

Jukie Burchill's take on it:

https://archive.ph/bTNMq

JULIE BURCHILL: When cry-bully goons ejected me and a group of 50 middle-aged people from a pub because someone disagreed with our views I realised: We no longer live in a free country

‘Why don’t you just meet at each others homes?’ was a common refrain on the discussion boards when people were analysing what happened to us. One reason is that I believe pubs hold an important place in the life of public discourse. I understand that our weird, robotic masters (I’m looking at you, Keir Starmer) would prefer us to be isolated and atomised and housebound, yelling angrily at each other on the internet, but we are social beings, best when communicating face to face.

Besides, if we concede the public space, I’m not convinced that our homes will be safe havens from the Thought Police. Just look at the SNP’s Hate Crime Act in Scotland, which applies to all forms of communication, from conversations to WhatsApp messages, with no ‘dwelling defence’ – that is, people are liable for prosecution for words spoken in their own homes, with punishments ranging from fines to seven years in prison. I don’t trust Starmer never to try this in the rest of the UK too.

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 20:42

Sorry, I've been having trouble with archive links. If "s" doesn't work, ".ph" often does.

IwantToRetire · 01/10/2024 21:22

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 20:42

Sorry, I've been having trouble with archive links. If "s" doesn't work, ".ph" often does.

Are you using firefox. Apparently there is a problem. If I want to read or use either .is or .ph have to use another browser.

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 21:51

Thanks, I'm using Chrome - it's only been playing up for the last couple of weeks.

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/10/2024 00:37

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 20:42

Sorry, I've been having trouble with archive links. If "s" doesn't work, ".ph" often does.

Those two archive sites go through periods of being pernickety: I think it's VPN and/or IP addresses that cause the problems for some folks.

Changing VPN location (or swapping to a different server option for a location) or flushing the DNS cache might help if fiddling with browser settings or nothing else helps:

https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-flush-your-dns-cache

duc748 · 02/10/2024 00:43

I've never had a prob with archive sites, they work every time. But I put that down to it being less problematic on a lap-top than a mobe. IANAITExpert.

Runsyd · 02/10/2024 10:26

Brighton is lost. Thank god I left years ago.

IwantToRetire · 02/10/2024 17:17

SinnerBoy · 01/10/2024 21:51

Thanks, I'm using Chrome - it's only been playing up for the last couple of weeks.

Sorry dont want to derail thread but only found out there's a whole section in Firefox support about this, and as a browser that is not part of a huge multimedia group is gradually being squeezed out. ie commercial designers saying the dont bother to cater for firefox user.

I can get both .is and .ph on Edge. (Gave up on chrome years ago)

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