Gisele Pelicot, utterly floored by this

[twoboystwodogs]

I am totally stunned by what happened to Gisele Pelicot, it is beyond horrific. The violation, the betrayal of trust, and that so many 'normal' men thought what they were doing was OK. I am struggling to find words. I'm not wanting to belittle all the other horrendous cases of violence against women. But to be drugged in your own bed by your husband and your husband allow other men to come in and rape you and he films it and he puts it on the Internet and encourages other men to do this to their wives. For over 10 years. What the actual f###? How much more of this abuse are women going to have to take before something is really done to stop it?

BBC News - Women moved by defiant Gisèle Pelicot in France mass rape trial
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg5g24rr6lo

I would not pick Japan as a good example. The underground has female only carriages because assault is so common. Up skirting is/was such a problem the Japanese passed laws that digital cameras had to make a noise when taking a photo.

Looking at stats from Wikki (I know) Sweden has a higher rate of rape than South Africa. But there are various definitions of rape and there are consequences for reporting it in different countries.

Quote from the article linked below:

In another case in Shizuoka, a 14-year-old girl testified that she was repeatedly raped by her father over two years period, but the court concluded that her statements were unreliable and acquitted him of that charge, though the court did find the father guilty of possessing child pornography and fined him 100,000 yen ($1,000).

www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/E5A43CF9D262C99C350C557A8419EB3B/S1479591423000554a.pdf/is_rape_a_crime_in_japan.pdf

Wasn't it Japan that had vending machines selling knickers that had been worn by schoolgirls?

Japan has very high rates of sexual violence against women. As others have said, the problem is so bad there are female-only train carriages solely for the purpose of reducing sexual assault on trains.

I'd really like to see some human data to back up your cultural theory. I mean that sincerely, not an attempted gotcha. All the data I'm aware of suggests male violence against women isn't dependent on culture but is pretty much ubiquitous across time and place. I'd very much like to be proved wrong.

Oh look, another poor man driven to be a rapist by childhood abuse
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2kdd3n7yqo

Plus - its a good job he recorded the rapes as now the other men cam be prosecuted

It's men letting women know there is nowhere for women to be safe and undefiled.

Remember the case about the man caught for the historic murders of two women, and during the investigation police discovered that he'd been raping dead women and girls in the morgue of the hospital he'd been working at as an electrician?

And another story of a teenage girl murdered (by her brother IIRC) and dumped in a bush, who was then found by a man who allegedly 'interfered' with her body.

You're right, there is nowhere. Even death doesn't guarantee that some women and girls will be safe from predatory men.

An example of a country with relatively low levels of sexual violence would be Japan. This may be due to strict laws which are (relatively) more consistently enforced and cultural norms emphasising harmony and social order. Although, I do think the rates of sexual violence are changing and getting worse and I strongly suspect this may be driven by increasing violent online porn

I don't think Japan is a good example. They have only just ( June 24 I believe) increased the age of consent from 13 to 16. Young runaway girls are tricked into becoming prostitutes by being befriended by young men who take them to those clubs with extortionate drinks and then tell the girls they are in debt to them and need to work to pay it back. These girls are used and then considered too old and discarded by the time they are 16/17. No-one gave crap as it was legal for these girls to be having sex. The women's groups trying to campaign against this and help the girls got a whole load of grief and their state funding removed.

It remains to be seen if the state will start giving a crap about runaway girls now the age of consent has increased.

fair points, and to other PP also

tbh it's bloody depressing the level of sexual violence worldwide

I just refuse to dismiss the baboon culture example

but I'm not going to bother trying to give any more examples of countries with relatively lower rates of sexual violence, as no one else has bothered to try and it's derailing the thread

which is about the disgusting levels of violence and how this particular case of Gisele Pelicot is affecting us all

I thought Japan had a huge problem with voyeurism

A solution? Well clearly men aren't going to stop without some kind of "force" being used (I mean that figuratively), so laws need to be brought in banning men - or should we say "people with p€πises" - from certain places at certain times, in order to make them more "femalefriendly".
Yes I know that a LOT more than that needs to be done, but that would be a start.

There was a recent thread about imposing a curfew for men. Nearly all posters ridiculed it and accused the OP of misogyny. Many cited the outrageous curtailing of male freedom just because a small minority attack and rape women. But it isn't a small minority, as this case and pretty much all studies show.

That's why it's crucially relevant to the thread to identify whether it is possible for low rates of male on female violence to coexist with male freedom or if it isn't. The fact that nobody can supply any evidence that it can is damning.

I think the sentence for rape should automatically be life. Literally life. But on the other hand, such a tough sentence might encourage murder. I read this was a counterargument against bringing in the death penalty for rape in India.
But if murder sentences were tough too..the prisons aren't big enough!

I suppose another is to interview rapists (ofc they lie) & try & work out what's driving their offences. I remember reading on 1 thread that the encouragement of celibacy in the medieval times may have helped control deviants like rapists & child abusers. I do think the sexual revolution wasn't v revolutionary for women in some ways, as it led eventually to the Wild West state of porn now. & now practically anything can be accepted if it's disguised as a kink.

I think the porn industry being overhauled would help. Anything non-consensual should be taken off, ofc. But also women who only enter bc of poverty & poor education should be helped to find something they prefer. I'm sure some women like it, but probs a minority judging by how violent & extreme the material sounds.. But then it might j7st become AI..

I always say this (def outing myself irl too 😂) but I think men should have a penis license and have to demonstrate they understand responsible use of a penis before they are allowed out after a certain time. It could be revoked if they were reckless or dangerous with their penis.

Just some questions, abit like the theory test for driving. Check they understand consent, that sort of thing.

Surprised and relieved that he has decided to "come clean". Hopefully he will name those men who have yet to be identified by the police.

But for 55 years + of his life (as far as we know) GP's husband did demonstrate that he was responsible with his penis. It was only when he was 40 years into his marriage that this started (again as far as we know). So I am not sure this would work. We need to understand what motivates violence, abuse and murder of woman as a starting point. And I think that men need to start standing up and say that this has to stop. The 'responsible' men can start by demonstrating how responsible they are by calling out this behaviours and demanding change too.

No. We only can't prove he did anything. I highly highly doubt he just randomly started being obsessed with strangers raping his unconscious wife after years of "being responsible".

At the very least with a license he'd have to educate himself on lack of consent through drink/drugs

Either that or ban porn/sex chat rooms so men are less likely find ways to meet these other weirdos

I'm cynical and think he's just trying to reduce his sentence. He's not admitting what he's done - he's following the "addiction/childhood abuse/wife's affair" script to shirk responsibility.

Why is surgical castration not a solution for rapists? Use your penis as a weapon, have it removed. A gun or knife would be removed and further use banned.

This is true, and maybe both of these things need to happen.

I agree with this, although it won't deter all cases - just as the death sentence doesn't deter all murders.

With any luck, he'll have retained their contact details and any discussions that he had with them.

That should expedite matters enormously albeit I'd have been more accepting of this volte face had it occurred earlier in the proceedings and included these details.

Better late than never…

Well yes, both would be ideal
Zero tolerance of low level sexual incontinence and getting rid of using sob stories as mitigation would also help
Sorry, it just makes me so angry. Was just reading the Huw Edwards "mitigations" and that nasty dog case recently, and these men just won't accept what they've done. The default seems to be its really hard for men to control themselves and they can't really be blamed if they "slip up"

They describe it as stopping sperm, sex organs shrinking and stopping sexual interest and behaviours if done post puberty

I don't know why we don't do it to peadophiles.

He can't really deny it. The evidence is overwhelming! The evidence he collected himself and left available for the police to find.

Some of the men were trying to pretend it was consensual but he couldn't. And he decided to bring them down with him by describing them all as knowing rapists in court. I am sure his thinking was ' why should they get away with it when I can't' .

Interesting that the husband described himself as loving his wife. I suspect he actually believes this. And for him, his feelings of love do not preclude him seeing his wife entirely as a function in his life that he is entitled to manipulate and deceive for his own benefit. I knew a man exactly like that. His behaviour was not illegal but put his wife at risk of physical harm, material harm and emotional harm - (and all of these harms were realised). He was genuinely devastated to lose her when his behaviour was finally exposed. I think he felt he did love her, but that did not stop him from viewing her as someone whose agency he was absolutely entitled to remove through his lies and manipulations. I think that is the scary thing about a lot of men. They don't really see us as equal humans.

He also appears to have previous for rape and murder. He was charged with rape back in 1999 if I'm reading correctly. And is the prime suspect in an earlier rape/murder case. Arrested back in 2010 for upskirting before the recent one too.

I assume you know about miscarriages of justice? Andrew Malkinson for example. Imagine being convicted and castrated and then, years later, for the authorities to admit the conviction was wrong.