Gisele Pelicot, utterly floored by this

[twoboystwodogs]

I am totally stunned by what happened to Gisele Pelicot, it is beyond horrific. The violation, the betrayal of trust, and that so many 'normal' men thought what they were doing was OK. I am struggling to find words. I'm not wanting to belittle all the other horrendous cases of violence against women. But to be drugged in your own bed by your husband and your husband allow other men to come in and rape you and he films it and he puts it on the Internet and encourages other men to do this to their wives. For over 10 years. What the actual f###? How much more of this abuse are women going to have to take before something is really done to stop it?

BBC News - Women moved by defiant Gisèle Pelicot in France mass rape trial
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg5g24rr6lo

Another question for me is why is there so much time spent looking at the life and childhood of those men?

Yes most (all?) of them have had dysfunctional childhood and have suffered abuse. But are we really saying that it’s a good enough excuse for them to rape?? That somehow it makes it more understandable so they should have a lesser sentence?

The thing I think about is how many more people have seen this and thought it sounded like a good idea. Communication as it is now gives ideas and encouragement to people who might never have crossed that line.

I'm sure I'd read the mother was still defending her husbands actions to a point? Has that changed now?

It's always struck me as odd that things said at sentencing can see a guilty man avoid jail altogether but if said at a parole hearing the same things can see the same man sent back to the cells.

Exactly this. I don't feel it's relevant.

Then it becomes a russian-doll of responsibility. They were likely abused by people who had been abused themselves - does that mean the abuse these men received was also forgivable?

The buck stops with the person performing the behaviour in my eyes, and a history of abuse, whilst sad, is not an excuse.

exactly
there are plenty of people (the majority I bet) who have experienced abuse in childhood who do not go on to abuse others- because they grew up to be adults capable of appreciating someone else's point of view and taking responsibility for their own behaviour

re not showing the videos in open court

Many, many women who have suffered sexually abuse and had it videoed and shared, say they experience be re-traumatised.

I dont ever think a video that shows women or children being abused should be shown to a wider audience.

That is why those who view videos of abuse are in law deemed to be just as responsible as the person who made it.

And I hate to say it, but I dont doubt all the pervy men who love violent pornography would be rushing to fill the court.

Good point @IwantToRetire

But then in this case, the VICTIM wanted those to be shown.
I think because it forces people to have to acknowledge there is no discussion re the rape.
Many of those men are complaining how hard their life is now because of the investigation/trial. But they also get support from others (like the Maire of Marzan) who thinks it wasn’t that bad. Showing the videos is reducing the possibility of saying ‘I didn’t know’ (which so many are using as a defence) to ever be considered a potential excuse.

the VICTIM wanted those to be shown

Did she say in open court?

I agree. According to that logic, given that the majority of victims of childhood sexual abuse are girls, the majority of perpetrators of child sexual abuse should be adult female survivors of childhood abuse.
Doesn't work out that way, though, does it?
The female survivors of CSA that I know are more likely to be tireless campaigners against, rather than perpetrators of..

That’s what I was thinking. Would he have said that if he’d been the victim of drugging and been raped 80+ times? I somehow think not. But then approximately 20 men haven’t been identified, have they? Makes you wonder.

Just been reading the testimony of the latest rapist who, despite thinking Gisele was dead, still went on to rape her and was there for three hours!

From what I've read about her husband he was much less successful than Gisele, if not an outright failure. I think part of what he did to her was to demean her, to show her who was in really in charge. Even the trips to the doctor, the being the supportive husband probably gave him a little frisson. He claims he loved her, seems more like hatred to me. Although I'm sure he loved the power he had over her.

Yes.
The trial itself was supposed to be hind closed doors. All of it.

Its not because she insisted for it to be open to all.
She has said many times, she wants to highlight to all what has happened and raise awareness about rape under the influence/unconscious.

It just gets worse. Do you have a link that at all?
Thanks.

That actually doesn't answer the questions whether she was asked about the videos being shown in public.

And obviously (but just shows the MANipulation of the situation) to hold the trial as a whole behind closed doors just looks like trying to brush it all under the carpet.

She wanted the videos to be shown.
It’s the judge who didn’t ’to protect the men who are still considered innocent’ at this stage.

These trials are usually behind closed doors in France unless the victim is asking for it to be open to the public. For a trial that size to be open to all is hugely unusual in France

Images of men allegedly raping a drugged Frenchwoman won't be shown when the public or journalists are in court for the trial of dozens of defendants in a case that has horrified France, a judge ruled Friday.

The presiding judge in the trial of Dominique Pelicot and dozens of others ruled the videos could be shown at the request of the prosecution or defence, but not as a matter of course.

But presiding judge Roger Arata said the images were "obscene and shocking" and would therefore not be shown systematically and not with media or the public present.

It seems from this article that the court / Judge will decide https://www.barrons.com/news/court-limits-screenings-of-videos-in-france-mass-rape-case-47dd5275

Part of me thinks the videos should be shown.. .. men will find pornographic images when they are behind ckosed doors... that argument does not withstand the need for men to be confronted with what men do to satisfy their sexual urges. Men need to be confronted with the reality that pornograplhic images are created with living human women who have feelings and emotions,,who are wives and mothers and who cannot freely consent, they are the women they meet in the street, in the supermarket, in the office and no... they are not the property of other men.

Those who comment on how, no one died, it was not a child, need to be confronted by the fact that no woman can get over this, that all women are afraid of this, that justice without public scrutiny, allows this to continue.

Bring this into the open so that no woman will ever be doubted... ever again!!

Louis Bonnet - the mayor who so shamefully tried to downplay the horror of the case - has announced his resignation.

Good.

But I see he's still describing the horrific crime as 'a slip up'.

Good. Any fucker minimising these awful crimes should not be in a position of authority

I see he's gone into hiding. Shame about the threats of violence.

What he needs is to have to walk the streets of where he lives and be mocked and humiliated.

What a contrast to the daily bravery of Gisele Pelicot.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/sep/17/gisele-pelicot-given-round-of-applause-outside-french-court-video

Shouldn’t it be Gisele’s decision? Makes it harder to deny what happened to her when everyone in that court is physically and viscerally made a witness to her rapes. The whole point is that what happened to her was obscene and the jury ought to know that. Feels like those men are being let off the hook not to have the videos played systematically in court. Whatever that means (though agree not to journalists/general public).

That’s the thing with playing the videos behind closed doors. It doesn’t show the horror of it in the same way.

Its like on the men came out and some one asked him how he’d feel if it had been his mum.
Cue for swearing and him telling the woman ‘I’ll come and rape your mum! You’re not touching MY mum!’
Obviously missing the irony of his comment….

But yes, it’s always ok when it’s someone else. It doesn’t feel real etc…
But when it’s someone close, all hell breaks loose.

See also men who tell you ‘there is rape and rape’ but are hyper protective of their own daughters, dint want them alone at night, check on the potential bf etc….

the jury ought to know that

There is no jury. It's a panel of 5 judges, no jury.