What brought you here?

[CyclingSam]

I have Rachel McKinnon to thank, with a strong assist by Magdalen Berns.

@woollyhatter what an excellent post! stands up and cheers

Trying to make sense of information given to me by my brother and my own sense of making peace with being female after years of hating it.

'The instance of being trans is 1 in 10000'
If the instance of being trans is 1 in 10000, what are the chances of there being 3 of you in two year groups at school who all know each other including two of you who are in the same class? It didn't make sense. It suggested either social contagion or something environmental. It didn't match patterns of spontaneity. I went through years of worrying whether there was something locally where we lived (eg chemicals or the water) or somehow someone has caused it (fears he had been sexually abused - he'd been heavily bullied and there were also reasons to think sexual abuse was a possibility) or social contagion and worries about it possibly being genetic (keep in mind I was going through the thought process of having a child at the time).

'It's not about gender stereotypes'
If it's not about gender stereotypes, why on earth are you taking lessons to walk like a woman, having electrolysis, wearing bras and dressing like a manga character. Indeed why is manga and anime such a big hobby in this community. That's odd if it's spontaneous and not environmental. What the fuck is going on here?

'I'm still the same person as I was before'
If you are still the same person, why are you asking and expecting me to treat you differently? Why are certain subjects suddenly off limits. Why is everything now about walking on eggshell to not upset you?

Rejection of fiancé
Rejection of my fiancée despite living under the same roof citing 'prejudice' - he hadn't even been told at this point. So it was somewhat unfair to call him prejudice and was somewhat prejudging him. The hypocrisy was off the scale.

Abuse
The completely unprovoked abuse we got from his partner. We'd been warned about it prior to meeting the partner by my mum. My mum didn't challenge the way we were treated once and came up with a bunch of excuses and why we should put up with it.

Relational identity
The sinking feeling of being asked innocently 'do you have any brothers or sisters?' and then having to decide between telling my truth and being able to relate to others, telling a lie and then feeling awkward because I couldn't relate and couldn't explain why I couldn't connect or having to explain to people I didn't know very well and just wanted a shallow polite conversation something pretty heavy. The idea that TWAW kinda falls apart at this point as does the 'be kind' and the notions of it 'just like being gay'. It was having a profound impact on my own identity and sense of self and how I related to other. At this point I gradually started the process of realisation that identity isn't just an individual thing disconnected to others. You have multiple identity issues - some individual but some of the most important are relational with your family relational identity being one of the most important without you even realising.

None of this added up. All of it involved me putting my brother before me without regard. Behaviour which would have been unacceptable in any other situation was not only tolerated but excused and justified.

This all coincidenced with me struggling with being a woman and pressure to have a baby by society because I'm female and a body clock starting to go off and significant birth fear.

And total disillusionment and frustration about sexism and abuse of women in online gaming communities. I found I was being tried totally differently with a gender neutral or male user name. The second that it became apparent you were female the disrespect and the abuse started. This was also true on Facebook.

MN had none of that shit and it liked swearing. The trans issue wasn't why I came here but it became relevant because of my personal experience and trying to process it. I realised it was actually harming me in the end. MN make me realise just how make centric and bollocks so much of it was.

So perfect storm really.

It's that sense of something being 'off' but not quite being able to process why and it not going away. And not understanding why it's bothering you so much if it's not a big deal.

My degree was media based so it was never ever just going to be something that I just accepted. I needed to question and work it out.

That's sounds really difficult @RedToothBrush and it must have been hard that your mum wasn't backing you up. It hurts the direct families the most I think. Hope you're in a better place now.

Yep. I am.

I'm many many years down the road now.

Very moving, Red toothbrush
Thank you.

This was it for me too. I came to MN in 2008 for advice on bfing etc as I’d just had a baby. Over time, I started reading AIBU and other boards. I started reading feminism threads and learnt a great deal. I began to see more and more threads about trans ideology and initially thought people were perhaps not Being Kind but I peaked in about 2015. Thanks MN 🙏

@RedToothBrush that's a moving and thoughtful post. Its such a disruptive ideology. Thanks for sharing. 💐

I have never believed that TWA - literally - W. I used to work in a psychiatric hospital where there was a support group for transvestites - even they didn't believe it so it was a shock to find that we all had to collude.

I used to follow a blog by a mormon interior designer and I really enjoyed her content and thought she had an interesting perspective - and she said she was feminist. However, I got banned FOR LIFE 😂for politely pointing out that it wasn't fair for males to compete against females in sport due to (obvious) physical advantages. I couldn't believe that such an innocuous opinion - and one based on science and reality - was considered to be verboten.

Finally, at the sports club that I used to go to a tw decided that it was absolutely necessary that he change with the teenage girls despite being a male and in his fifties. The girls didn't want this but there were plenty of people telling them they were bigots for having boundaries. Topsy-turvy world indeed.

These incidents and more made me seek out some sane opinions and I was happy to find them here!

I found mn as a new mother 20 years ago. Drifted away as the kids got older.

When I noticed something odd was going on, in around 2017 I stated to look more deeply into what was happening. I remembered that mn had a v. good feminism board, so logged back in. Sure enough, you were all talking about current issues for women and, although I don't post much, I've been reading here ever since.

I forget, but I assume a link from AIBU. Found lots of strong articulations of ideas that had been hitherto only very partly formed in my head.

I was already on MN but ended up on the feminism board via google - I'd been thinking hold on, isn't the idea of "living as a woman/man" terribly sexist, resting entirely on stereotypes? I googled looking for clarification on this point, thinking maybe I wasn't educated enough and was missing something ... nope! That was in 2016/17.

Unfortunately in 2019 a child I knew well, who was young enough to still pretend to be a dog or a superhero, expressed a desire to be the opposite sex and was immediately socially transitioned and "affirmed" by one parent. The other parent, a close friend, was horrified when I filled them in on the details of what was happening more broadly. Incredibly, despite starting out gender critical they have somehow gone along with it all. I do not know them or the child is question so well now, but have been following developments around gender stuff avidly since then in the hope things would change in time to protect the child. I think things are coming to a head now as child will be approaching/starting puberty (and dislikes their sexed body, despite being quite comfortable with it before everyone lied to them about reality). It's devastating what these parents have done and I expect my friend will really struggle to come to terms with what they've done, at some point - because on some level they know, and knew when it all began but squashed down their doubts.

@RedToothBrush
Relational identity
The sinking feeling of being asked innocently 'do you have any brothers or sisters?' and then having to decide between telling my truth and being able to relate to others, telling a lie and then feeling awkward because I couldn't relate and couldn't explain why I couldn't connect or having to explain to people I didn't know very well and just wanted a shallow polite conversation something pretty heavy.

this really struck a chord with me. My brother died, a few years ago now. At the time of his death I read advice about sibling bereavement. It pointed out that at some point, someone will ask you whether you have brothers or sisters, and that it’s helpful to anticipate that and think about what you might want to say.

It was helpful to be forewarned, but when this happens, I still never know what to say. It depends on the person and the circumstances of course, but always involves that awkward decision, exactly as you describe it. The parallel as I read your post astounded me.

So a sibling transition, has elements of a sibling bereavement. I’m sure there is also grief.

I wouldn't want to call it grief as it's not like losing a sibling. But on the other hand it's interesting hearing it in this manner given transwidows. It hadn't occurred to me that people who have lost a sibling find that question difficult. It's such an innocent universal question.

Perhaps grief isn’t the right word, but I think it’s a loss. I have a trans relative too, but not as closely related as a sibling.

I've always been keen to ensure women's rights, but things started to change when C (formerly B) Jenner was given a Woman of the Year award, which made me wonder how the hell that had happened, since biology and facts you know.

My desire to ensure women's rights are maintained and protected has become more entrenched in the last few years with the ideologies and bad behaviours that have become acceptable seem to want to destroy everything from the word that describes us to our actual presence in the world.

I've had massive rows with famiy and friends, but my position will remain unchanged. Thank goodness there is at least one place where I can see that others share the same views.

It has never made sense to me and I lurked for years to read like minded feelings about the whole ideology. I can't remember what made me start here though. I must have read it somewhere.

RedToothBrush

I'm the only surviving sibling of 3 and like PP, I also sometimes struggle with what to say when asked. But at least my whole history hasn't been rewritten. That would make me very resentful.

Thinking about it, Pips Bunce was also 2018 - so another of the precipitating cluster of events for me.

You might enjoy this then. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/JDokDT9YqQSvYT5N/?mibextid=UalRPS
I love how accurate it is about the intersectionality madness.

NoBinturongsHereMate · Yesterday 23:07

Thinking about it, Pips Bunce was also 2018

Blimey, that long ago? Bunce and Jenner were probably the first to hit my WTF?! radar.

I've been lurking on FWR since 2019 (can't believe it's 5 years)
One of my staff had an ugly stand off with a TRA client about toilets (TRA ally, not gender identified himself). The TRA client claimed transphobia and homophobia.
The staff member was an older man and could be quite sexist and un-PC. I was very left of centre LGB rights, BLM solve all the world's problems at the time so I fell for everything the client said initially. The staff member did lose his temper and said some inappropriate things. So I assumed he was a bigot.
But eventually I found the way the client behaved quite disturbing. He was very confrontational and nothing we did to apologise was enough for him. Also some of the things he said seemed illogical/impossible.
I wanted to learn more, assuming (hoping) it would all make sense once I had the full picture.
I went on Google and typed in "problems issues concerns negative impacts trans rights transgender activism" and got.... NOTHING. I can still remember the shock looking at pages and pages of "how to be a good ally" "how to be inclusive" "learn about transgender". I actually felt cold all over and nauseous. It was my 1984 George Orwell moment.

Then I remembered I'd seen an article about a feminist academic who'd been branded transphobic (I think it was HL-S) So I searched the name and landed on a post on MN FWR and it was so enlightening! It actually saved me from feeling like I was going mad.

Sorry this ended up being so long...
TL;DR Google censorship peaked me and MN was a guiding light.

In Ireland the start of my feeling there was something badly wrong about this came from listening to the reports on Lydia Foy's years-long campaign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LydiaFoy

It had all the familiar features of a very assertive and driven central character, others wanting to be kind to them, science denial, using the language of disabled and disadvantaged people to make emotional claims, disregard of the effect on families, and ultimately a legal conclusion based on distortion and disregard of both scientific fact and the meaning of language, and sentimentality. And here we now are.

Abusive ex. Attending a Women's Aid recovery programme made me realise how many men treat women as 'other' and how threatened they seem to be by women. Then I was called a terf on SM, which I felt was complimentary. The more you dig, the worse it seems to be though and I find it horrifying.

It is quite interesting to see how posters arrived here. I came via an AIBU thread about … da da da da… toilets! I couldn’t believe what I was reading and so I lurked for months trying to get my head around what was happening.

At the same time my friend was telling me about her daughter, so I was reading the threads about children claiming gender identities. So when inevitably my own teen started telling me about their new friends that were girls but were boys, I was thankfully already starting to get informed.

I am so thankful that I found the nest of vipers who discuss the issues indepth and provide evidenced counter points to the mantras and the baseless claims.

I came here from another forum at the same time as SinnerBoy, Kuc, Binturong, Elderberry, duc and others. On that forum we were allowed just one thread to discuss FWR and had constant disruption from drive-by woke scolds, but I'd been on variations of the forum for 20 years and there were a lot of people there I liked. Eventually, the site owner had a fit of absolute rage, called the FWR posters 'shit stains on the site' and demanded we leave or be pushed out. Unsurprisingly, most of us left. I was already active on MN but re-grouping here was such a good idea, this forum is far better.

What brought me to this place in the first place was a mix of Yaniv, Challenor and the woman who was assaulted by the huge TW. I was peaked already but then the Lib Dem leader, Jo Swinson, had the idea that campaigning on TWAW would make her Prime Minister (did she honestly believe that?) and I realised that, Oh My God, these people are actually serious about this shit and a volcano went off in my head and I peaked even more.

Anyway, Swinson is now history and the tide is turning.