‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

[LunaNorth]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm23zye08j4o

So this trend. I’m bridling at the ‘demure and mindful’ bullshit being promoted by someone who is performing femininity.

Demure and mindful women seldom make history. Here we go again, being sent back into our boxes by men.

I was keen to see what the research was that elle and friends have done? Because it would be great to see exactly what has shaped their opinions on this topic.

Maybe they will share and we can be convinced too. I re- evaluate my position regularly when new studies are released. Maybe there is something that we are missing.

Like what medical science there is that underpins that a male who declares they are female (ie using female pronouns) is no longer male in material reality ? Or is it all a sleight of hand that rests on legal identity? Post modernist theory? Another sociology based theory? Or is it medical fact?

thanks for engaging

can you explain how I can tell that they're living their lives as women - give some examples of things they do that would let me tell that?

And if they both know what a woman is well enough to identify as one, and you know well enough to tell that they're identifying as one, then it should be easy for you to give some of the characteristics all women share, it would be great if you could do that

Yes. It was a different type of ‘fuck off’.

If you can’t see the difference between telling someone to stop misrepresenting and twisting a person’s argument and telling someone that they are not welcome to post on a forum, then I guess I cannot make it any clearer and you should continue to do you.

And if you can’t see that either way fuck off is pretty rude….

Yes. It was rude.

It was the one rude post of mine on this thread and others, despite accusations of other rudeness.

Do you consider misrepresenting opinions repeating rather than seeking clarification and then further misrepresenting a poster by making out that they hate trans people, and are just furious that trans people exist and to calm down rude?

@BernardBlacksMolluscs Caitlyn Jenner has done plenty of interviews about her life as a woman. The original Vanity Fair interview is a particularly good piece.

Do you understand that using slurs as you have done is rude?

Shall we discuss the topic at hand?

What is the research that has convinced you that a male person can become a ‘woman’?

Why do you censure women’s language to attempt to make them comply to your personal philosophical belief?

Caitlyn Jenner somehow managed to win a gold medal for an event women weren't allowed to compete in at the time. Quite a feat.

Is that your research? Jenner?

A male person who was acclaimed as a ‘woman of the year’ while achieving all that gave them fame as a male athlete?

that's great, but i'm interested in what you think. you're pretty short with people who don't share your beliefs, so you must be very clear about what they are.

therefore it will be easy for you to give some examples of the things Caitlyn Jenner does that make you believe they are living as a woman.

Caitlyn Jenner totally disagrees with TW in women's sport.

to be fair, I brought Jenner up, not Elle

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/caitlyn-jenner-trans-not-women

as I said upthread, Caitlynn seems ok.

No, @Helleofabore. Strangely enough not. But the pp had asked a specific question about Caitlyn Jenner… are you deliberately trying to misunderstand and misrepresent?!

It's a tongue in cheek reaction to Charli xcx and her 'brat girl summer'

It's a joke.

💯

No man could ever live as a woman, no matter what stereotype he adopted.

No woman could ever live as a man no matter what stereotype she adopted.

I must admit I don't know exactly how anyone sets about living as a stereotype, but then I don't do stereotypes, I just bump along doing my chores, feeding myself and the beasts, amusing myself and attempting to enjoy life as best I can. How being a stereotype would change that I really and truly don't know.

ah, I see I picked a bad example, although I'm pretty sure that hasn't always been his position.

Let's pick Laverne Cox then. what do they share with Angela Merkel that makes them both women?

And a sex chromosome configuration ending in Y

yes, of the kind Jim Davidson used to tell (remember the heeelarious Chalky White?)

just because it's a joke doesn't mean it's not stupid and crass and punching down

I appear to have got a deletion for pointing out someone was filling up the thread with attention seeking squabbling due to the dearth of reasoned argument. I can’t see why that deserved deletion.

And then there's this ...

https://purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/bruce-jenner-announces-on-camera-that-he-tried-on-his-10-year-old-daughters-clothes/

Is this "living as a woman"?

Twice!

Be kinder 😉