‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

[LunaNorth]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm23zye08j4o

So this trend. I’m bridling at the ‘demure and mindful’ bullshit being promoted by someone who is performing femininity.

Demure and mindful women seldom make history. Here we go again, being sent back into our boxes by men.

If you don't understand what the issue is @FreedomDogs I thought another poster summed it up very well.

when that person is from the same cohort as the oppressors, then making jokes about the oppressed, even if intended to be ironic, is tone deaf.

It's not a joke "about the oppressed", it's a joke about wearing make up, which is not an innate feature of the oppressed group, and which other people outside that group can also do

It's not a joke "about the oppressed", it's a joke about wearing make up, which is not an innate feature of the oppressed group, and which other people outside that group can also do

It's not a joke about wearing make up, is it, it's about being "demure" which is not an adjective people ever apply to men. So disingenuous.

Lots of us have had our tendons pulled, amongst other things. You haven't - congratulations, no need for you to listen to anyone else because you already know it all - go ahead and enjoy.

Oh come on, Eresh. How can you have forgotten all those times throughout history where men have been criticised for not being 'demure'.

A lot of these male people would love to be called "demure", I'm sure.

@Ereshkigalangcleg not sure what ‘male people’ you’re referring to. The tiktoker in question here is a woman, who happens to be trans.

No.

The tiktokker in question is a male who identifies as a transwoman.

They are a male person.

They have not changed sex. They are not part of the oppressed class of people that are female and had ‘demure’ used in a way that caused them harm.

This is a male person who is being celebrated here. The language the BBC uses leaves the impression this is a female person being celebrated.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Jools LeBron is a woman.

Moreover this whole demure and mindful comedy trend has naff all to do with ‘oppression of women’. It’s just a TikTok trend responding to brat summer.

The tiktoker in the clip is a male, a “transwoman”. To be a transgender identified male - they must be born male (clue is in the name…)

I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Oh wow, we've definitely never heard that one before. You've rather missed the point there.

@StealthSpinach I have no clue what your line of argument is there. It makes no sense.

Jools LeBron is a woman.

No, Jools Lebron is male. Women are female.

Oh my! More laughs, lucky me!

Is that you, David?

Jools LeBron is a transwoman, the only feature that unifies all transwomen are that they are male. Born male, stay male, die male. Sex is not changeable

It’s a joke about the travails of women being asked to be ladylike, to sit nicely, tinkly laugh, don’t take up too much room…

In a world where women are actually being expected to be silent and covered outside the house, not to use social media and so on, it’s really not funny. And when that ‘joke’ is in the repertoire of a womanface practitioner, it’s trippley galling.

I mean, come on? Where is the joke? Can we joke about the oppression of a few other groups? I can think of some corkers.

Obviously I won’t as it would be tasteless and offensive. Like this one.

Can you tell me why you think that is a woman, @ElleWoods15 ?

Also saying that it's a response to some other vapid TikTok trend like anyone over 20 gives a fuck.

And I’m not sure what point I’ve missed.

Ms Lebron is a woman. She happens to be a transwoman. Once again, the echo chamber of TERF views that is mumsnet is choosing to misgender her. She’s done very well out of the demure and mindful trend she started so I doubt she gives a fig about your offensive and oppressive views.

You make no sense stating that this person is a woman, they are not. It is imperative that a person is male in order to be a transwoman. Transwomen are not women.

And I’m not sure what point I’ve missed.

No, that's obvious. I suspect that happens a lot.

So just a new tra tag teaming. I am a dinosaur as it happens. I haven't misgendered Jools LeBron i have correctly sexed them. I initially thought you'd made a genuine mistake but now I see you are just another reality denier.

The OED definition of transwoman suggests your wrong in your use/understanding of the terminology @StealthSpinach. I’d have a read.