Anyone know why the thread about the death of the young transman has been deleted

[Taytoface]

Horrific story about death due to surgical complications, was reading it and poof. Anyone know what happened. This is such important information to get out there.

"I agree that the glibness of some of the comments on here is deeply, deeply offensive."

Absolutely. I don't believe many people with teenagers at the moment are not dealing with the issues one way or another. I know 5 families who are our friends who are dealing with issues just as you describe Dygger and that is not including friends of friends which seems to increase that dramatically.

But apparently, Mumsnet FWR is not the place to discuss it and we are ignorant and not genuine in our concern as we are constantly accused almost daily. Fuck that! That takes some fucking disconnected thinking to make those accusations on this board.

So you agree with what we are saying, but don’t think we should say it? Out of respect for Griffin?

I am concerned about all the other young Griffins, that we have time to help.

Oooh yes, ladies! We must remember our female socialisation and Be Kind at all times, even when unscrupulous doctors are cutting healthy body parts off of our daughters!

I agree this is exploitation of Griffin.
People do it all the time when someone is murdered or dies in unusual circumstances.

Do what? Say that this was a tragic and AVOIDABLE death, what can we do make sure the same thing does not happen to other innocent people?

I'm not convinced that that response is exploitative.

@DeanElderberry

And as for unsatisfied with who they are, that's up to them to change or adapt to, but again, not an indication that the body is in any way 'wrong'.

I'd agree with that, but the person affected may not.

The #bekind and Handmaids' excuses are used too often. They've been worn out.

Uh, yes, obviously.

So stop trying to shame us out of speaking up, eh?

When a discussion is derailed and starts to revolve around one poster, who is not saying anything of substance but just variously insulting/impugning other posters, it's not usually to do with the subject under discussion, but more to do with someone desperate for attention/drama/supply.

It does nobody any favours to indulge this behaviour.

I am not going to feel pressurised into feeling guilty about reading the SRS thread on the Farms.

I don't care if some people think it's awful or worse. I care about the truth and they archive primary sources and evidence. I have also seen some great concern for Griffin there while still alive.

We need to be aware of how awful these complications are. Memory holing the lot is not going to help the future Griffins of this world.

Probably not. Anorexics want to continue to starve themselves, therapists try to keep them alive long enough to recover. Mental health service delivery can be life saving, but CANNOT be driven by the skewed perceptions of the person suffering from the disorder.

That is assuming that we are driven by a wish to save the lives of vulnerable people rather than by a wish to play word games.

Thanks for the timely reminder. You are quite right.

I will accept your apology if it’s honestly and genuinely proffered. I certainly found your comment: It's rather like poking a dead animal and seeing hundreds of flies buzz off the carcass utterly horrendous and could not understand why you would make it on an upsetting thread about the unnecessary and tragic death of a vulnerable young person. I thought perhaps you must be a man to make that comment, which may be a sexist thought.

As far as I can discern, no one on this thread is ‘exploiting’ Griffin’s death. No one has done anything apart from express concern on how this was possible with a view to better understanding how to prevent another death or even prevent life full of post op complications and misery. Factual information helps.

Your first post was this No. That's a classic response - "You just think it's far right because you think it's horrible". It encompasses all the hate and bilge that can't be expressed on the usual sites. This hostility and ideology stems most commonly from the far right. Sorry. to reprimand posters for mentioning KF as a source of further information. The subtext was definitely to imply posters here are far right fgs. And it may well be that KF posters discussing Griffin are despicable gloating people. If so, go reprimand them. That seems justifiable.

100%.

My mistake in continuing to engage. I was hoping that maybe Caliga was open to genuinely discussing concerns about preventing another tragedy or discussing the panic mothers feel when a vulnerable child raises or starts down the trans path. Perhaps that’s being naive.

It is frustrating when random posters don’t RTFT, don’t engage with genuine questions, and don’t explain their accusations. Instead, they come on to make throw away comments suggesting that concerned women and mothers are aligned with the ‘far right’. Under such conditions, an irritable tone to some posters is a reasonable response.

I, for one, am incredibly grateful for the thoughtful, informed, experienced women posting on these FWR threads. They have helped me find the language to more clearly express my concerns and provided much food for thought.

Sorry DrB, but did I miss who made that comment? I think I have been skimming too much.

It is completely fucked up to have made in on this thread. Who the fuck felt that this was appropriate?

Caliga posted that

Well fuck! That is grim.

Caliga · Today 07:14

In response to you @Helleofabore where Caliga said:

Why would I be upset? 🙄 I was amused yesterday actually at the deluge of posts I received after a few posts. It's rather like poking a dead animal and seeing hundreds of flies buzz off the carcass. (BTW: you've already said 'clearly biased'. I got it the first time.)

Edited to add perhaps this was said as an off the cuff defensive comment but still very upsetting.

Edited to add perhaps this was said as an off the cuff defensive comment but still very upsetting.

There is really no need to make excuses for this poster. They know what they are doing.

Oh no! how did I miss that! I really have been skimming. Thanks DrB

And what a remarkable post? Denial of being upset (while making posts claiming to be a victim of being 'patronised' and 'talked down to'), and then saying they were amused, while posting such a fucked up sentence. Then the confusing edit which I also missed.

so concerned that they discuss them using the wrong pronoun

1. We cannot offend a deceased person because they aren't alive to see or hear it.
2. Calling someone by the medically correct sex identifiers and matching pronouns isn't "speaking ill of the dead" because there's nothing wrong with being either female or male.
3. It's vital that we do not forget that Griffin was female. Boys and girls are socialised differently and, for girls, compliance and conformity are part of how we are conditioned. Transition doesn't undo that conditioning and that conditioning will affect how Griffin responded to the coercion she faced.
4. I consider it unlikely that Griffin's medical team mutilators treated her as the man she wanted to be. If they had, they would probably have not coerced her into medically-needless surgery.

True Eresh

Sometimes, not very often, a hostile poster comes on the threads and then engages in such a way as to result in a civil conversation. I wondered if that might happen here?

And what a remarkable post? Denial of being upset (while making posts claiming to be a victim of being 'patronised' and 'talked down to'), and then saying they were amused, while posting such a fucked up sentence.

Yes, exactly.