Israel society debates the right to rape

[Rymeswithpunt]

People are accusing Israel of being a right to rape state.

Do people here think this is an issue for feminists?

A bit of context;

www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/9/everything-is-legitimate-israeli-leaders-defend-soldiers-accused-of-rape

https://wrap.substack.com/p/israel-debates-the-right-to-rape

I suggest that the article linked to gives a very different slant to the 'story' to the article published in theTimes of Israel. Sensationalised and tabloid in style. Israel is not thinking of legitimising rape - though Hamas and its supporters certainly did - suggesting the brutal rape and killing of men women and children on October 7th was simply "an act of resistance".

One extreme Israeli voice has been picked out and then blown up by Al Jazeera to suggest that this was an actual/credible debate in the Knesset. It wasn't!

Ummm. Nah. There are plenty more Times of Israel articles on this that are substantially the same as the linked article. Enjoy…
https://www.timesofisrael.com/search/?submit=&q=Beit+Lid+base

User6874356 · Today 01:14

No. these are not serious accusations- just more anti Israel and antisemitic hate.

So, are you saying that the leaked video of the gang rape is anti-Semitic hate? OK, you support Israel and that's fine, but some supporters deny anything, even from Israeli sources, which show it in a bad light. Are they to be free from investigation and criticism?

What the actual fuck? What….? Killing someone is removing them. Defending yourself may involve hurting them as you push them away. Rape? wtf can they argue about rape?

Sometimes I hate this world.

The far right faction in the Knesset is pretty powerful in Israel…
https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-mk-justice-officials-who-go-after-soldiers-will-be-prosecuted-as-traitors/

“In a grim threat to judicial officials, far-right MK Limor Son Har-Melech said Thursday that any who prosecute Israeli soldiers for alleged criminal acts during the war in Gaza will themselves be “charged and prosecuted as the lowest of traitors.”

Speaking at a right-wing rally in support of the arrested soldiers on Thursday evening which appeared to include several dozen protesters, Son Har-Melech said she was there to “protect our soldiers” from Military Advocate General Maj. Gen. Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi.

“Our soldiers have enemies abroad who need to be fought, but also enemies at home,” she declared. “Whoever dares lay a hand on our soldiers will be charged and prosecuted as the lowest of traitors.”

“Son Har-Melech was not the only far-right MK to pledge support to the soldiers. A number of MKs and even government ministers took part in the riots at the IDF bases earlier this week.”

The Al Jazeera article never say there was a debate in the Knesset…they simply repeat what Members of the Knesset have really said in public. No different from how Times of Israel reports what MKs say.

The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor is an ideological advocacy NGO led by Palestinians alleged by Israel to be linked to Hamas. The organization uses the facade of human rights and focuses primarily on demonizing Israel, with no publicly available information on its budget or funding sources.

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor’s current and former Board Chairs appear on a 2013 list published by Israel, of Hamas’ “main operatives and institutions” in Europe"

Ramy Abdu, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor Founder and Chairman
In November 2020, Israel signed an order against Ramy Abdu under Israel’s anti-terrorism law. The order was issued “in relation to his work with the designated terrorist organization ‘

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/#:~:text=Euro%2DMed%20Human%20Rights%20Monitor%20(Euro%2DMed%20Monitor),”%20and%20“war%20crimes.”

The thread starter suggests that "Israel Debates The Right to Rape".

That is a headline straight from Al Jazeera.

While we are picking out extreme statements made by extremists and then generalising them in a way which makes them seem representative of Israel or Israeli people, let's look at some of the extreme statements made by Hamas - including those in its founding charter. Would you like to start?

Yes, I am aware that there are allegations without evidence regarding the Swiss based Euro-Med having links to Hamas. I should have said “no proven links”.

The right wing Jerusalem based Israeli funded NGO monitor has been known to fail fact checks and omit facts that may cause harm to the far right government of Israel
mediabiasfactcheck.com/ngo-monitor-bias/

However, given that the source of this story of the brutally raped Palestinian detainee was whistleblown by an Israeli Doctor working at a detention centre hospital to the Times of Israel, I think we can trust that this rape really did happen. We don’t really need to do bias and fact checks regarding Al Jazeera, Euro-Med or NGO monitor…

Hamas are classified as a terrorist organisation, Israel have signed up to the Geneva Convention and various international human rights treaties.

The torture and rape of Palestinians was shown on Israeli TV; it hasn't been made up by anti semites. Members of the public and various members of the government have called for the soldiers responsible to be released because they are defending Israel.

That implies that some parts of Israel think it is ok to rape detainees and others do not, hence a debate. Which is what is happening there between various MKs, on news shows and so on.

which means that your post saying whoever are “generalising Israel and the Israeli people” is just false. If they had been, they’d have said “Israel defends right to rape”

Debate means disagreement.

@Shortshriftandlethal

Do you condemn rape? What are your thoughts on the rape and torture of suspected terrorists?

I note you have not made any comment in relation to the OP.

@Shortshriftandlethal If the reasonableness of rape is even a question in the public arena it is a risk to women and children also, and they could be any ethnicity. People who can be this violent are not that discriminating, in my opinion.

Disgust and condemnation of rape is not Antisemitism.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the effort to derail the thread with whatabouterry about various news sources isn't put into responding to the news sources that haven't provoked whatabouterry to talk about the issue.

It is just so idiotic. Any country that has been activiely at war or (something the UK has a history of) oppressing citizens of a country they are occupying, then has allegations made against it's armed forces of rape, sexual exploitation and worse. (There is a case dating back ot 2012 of a Kenyan woman last seen alive with a British soldier.) And not forgetting Russian soldiers in Ukraine

Obviously in an ideal world there would be no war or conflict. But the reality there is there is. But thanks to the men who participate in this, willingly or conscripted then seem to think that being part of an oppressing groups transfers onto them the right to do what they might want to do as civilians but dont, on prisoners that under the Geneva convention they should be treating with respect.

Apart from the worry I expressed earlier in this thread about that the number of armed conflicts round the world seem to be spreading, is the gut wrenching reality that given the opportunity, men exploit the power they have as soldiers to enact their worst fantasies of torture and rape.

That is what this is about.

Men.

Nobody is denying that a detainee was raped ( including there being no denial by the Israeli government). But the thread starter is misleading in the extreme, and the sources you have quoted all clearly biased propoganda channels for Hamas.

You must be aware, however, that there are many on the Pro Hamas side of the fence who still wilfully deny the rapes and atrocities carried out on October 7th.

The thread starter was worded to suggest that Israeli society is having debates as to whether to de-criminalise rape. That is blatantly and outrageously false.
If we are going to talk about rape in war more generally.....then the thread should have been worded that way.

Additionally, the rapes and other atrocities of October 7th, though, were not on combatants or detainess but on civilian men, women and children.

I'm not playing this game that you have now created. I'm responding to the thread title.

Of course rape is to be condemned. Why would you suggest I'd think otherwise?

Nobody has suggested it was made up. The Israeli government is not suggesting it was made up. The point is that this thread is a blatant act of distorted, anti Israeli campigning. Twisting the wording of the thread starter to suggest something that is false - namely that Israel has been having debates as to whether or not to legitimise rape.

But the thread starter is misleading in the extreme,

And already challenged much earlier.

Why not read the thread and participate in the issue, instead of attempting to hijack it.

Its so tedious this unreliable source nonsense.

I am sure Hamas is absolutely thrilled that you think they are so powerful that all round the world news outlets are passively promoting a pro Hamas message!

But just to remind you that the thread is about the fact that some is Israeli society are actively talking about it being acceptable to rape detainees.

And even at the height of Suealla Braverman's weird ideas of right wing ideology, nothing approaching this warped perception enter the public domain.

Anyone would think you dont want anyone to talk about what is currently going on in Israeli society and in the IDF.
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408welcometohell

Why not create a more balanced debate, then...in which Hamas and its thousands of 'operatives' also think that rape of civilian men, wome, children and hostages is also legitmate?

Reading a long history of Israel written by someone sympathetic to the Israelis.

He says the same. The problem goes back many decades.

I'm not " hijacking it" - I'm disputing the whole premise of the thread starter - which constitutes blantant and hateful propoganda. When you say " hijacking" is this what you mean....not permitting a blalant distortion to go unquestioned?