Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

2 months ago

Mumsnet: "No one can change sex. It's what they are at birth that counts"
Others: "What what about people with DSD?"
Mumsnet: "Such a small percentage so they don't count, it's what someone is at birth that counts"

Now

Mumsnet: "An organisation that is run by the Kremlin and has already been removed from the Olympics for ethical and governance issues has said that a boxer failed gender tests. This person is a man and must be removed at all costs"
Others: "They were born female"
Mumsnet: "That doesn't matter, anyone can be born female"
Others: "But the results haven't been released and no one even knows what the actual tests were"
Mumsnet: "That doesn't matter. Someone said they were male and so we will all scream and shout about it because I can always tell. If you're not slim, under 5ft 8 and attractive you MUST be a man"

In the absence of any mitigating information that explains why an XY karyotyped, high testosterone individual doesn't have male physical advantage, we have to err on the side of caution - for the benefit of all the female athletes who may compete against this individual - and advocate for exclusion from female category events.

Piffle.

If Khelif is a male with a DSD then he was not born female his sex was incorrectly observed and recorded as female at birth.

None of the posters here who believe Khelif is male believe he has changed sex just that he has never been female.

Now do one that's not all strawmanning

What a ridiculous strawman, it's clear you have neither an understanding of the issue nor of the gender critical position (if that's what you mean by "mumsnet" in this context.

The GC position is that gender is always nonsense, and has no bearing on anything. We are only interested in whether someone is male or female, which is determined by one's sex.

DSDs are tangentially related to the issue of transgender matters because some people may choose to be more sympathetic to someone with a DSD choosing to express themselves that don't relate to their chromosomes.

But sport is completely different, and is a matter of integrity, fairness and safety. This is wholly related to biology.

There is comprehensive evidence, both from ISO accredited labs, the boxer's own trainers, and our own eyes that these people are male, and they don't have the right to be in women's sports.

It's sad that you would construct a strawman argument, it's so obvious it's comical.

The IBA isn't run by the Kremlin, either.

It was stated many many times, when DSD was bought up, that people with DSD just don't matter as there aren't many of them.

Suddenly they DO matter it seems.

It might help that before you comment, you had actually read any posts on FWR?

If someone is born female that's the end of it. No one here would disagree with that.

Khekif has XY chromosomes - male.

How do you know she has XY karyotypes and high testosterone? NONE of the test results, or even what the tests were, has been released. It is all conjecture.

Ah yes, I have no understanding. Of course. I should do my resurch yeah? Must head off to YouTube with all the people who have seen unreleased test results in their dreams.

Try reading the threads.

Even the coach has confirmed they're trying to reduce Khelif's testosterone into the female range.

My question is what makes you think they're female?

Is it the F on the Passport?

Erm, the tests have been reported and one of his own doctors has said he is XY and had to reduce his testosterone. Perhaps you should read the entire thread from the beginning?

Can you point me to what tests were performed, exactly, and the results please?

You seem to be a bit of a spoon.

Well you don't have any understanding of the GC position.

Mumsnet: "That doesn't matter, anyone can be born female"

that's the TRA position!

I have read the whole thread.

The results have not been released, and her coach has not said she has XY karyotypes.

The gender tests she reportedly failed have not been outlined, or what test it was released. The result of any tests, other than failed, has not been released.

You seem to be making stuff up as you go along.

If ANYONE here can provide direct evidence of the tests performed and the result, then I will happily change my opinion.

Conjecture is not proof by the way.

Please show me ANY proof of this?

I don't say she is female. Or male. I don't know as none of the test results have been released.

I say don't make stuff up until you do actually know.

all the evidences contained in these threads of which this is number four.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5138713-thread-4-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=8

If that's too long and you can't be arsed to read it, then we have a handy précis of all the evidence right here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread

The coach has not confirmed that she is DSD.

My doctor is trying to reduce my testosterone. Does that make me male?

There is nothing by conjecture in any of those threads. I've been reading them.

I will reiterate. No test results have been released. None.

It would if they were trying to get you into the female range.

No female needs their testosterone reduced at the Olympics. Unless they're doping.

Still waiting for these supposed test results. And for where her coach confirmed she has DSD.