THANK YOU MATTHEW PINSENT

[PermanentTemporary]

On the Beeb now saying clear as day that the entire controversy over the boxing was wrong, it was the IOC's own fault and it needs fixing in the next Olympics cycle. No mention of individual athletes - the blame squarely where it belongs, with the mess the IOC allowed to happen.

I was a rower so he's a bit of a God to me anyway, but to say it so clearly and simply when I've been infuriated by practically everything I've read or heard about it, whichever angle it was from, was just AWESOME.

Serena Williams! They choose a muscular black woman to make their point that "we don't know what a woman is". Your colleague sounds a bit racist tbh.

The DSD athletes have come from African and Asian countries so that means there are WOC athletes who have had their team places, medals and money taken by males. Looking at the events these males have completed in, there is every chance it is a WOC who has lost her gold medal opportunity.

It's interesting reading the speculation over the next IOC president.

The talk about alternatives to Coe seem to centre on electing the first female IOC president with several female names on the frame.

Coe's weaknesses as it goes are his sex and his age (67) with the IOC having a cut off of 70 for new members and a stated desire to bring in more younger officials.

Coe has made a soft statement of intent that he's interested in the job and he'd think about it. Which is about where you'd expect him to be whilst he quietly lobbies around the edges to guage how much support he actually has before making himself an official candidate.

Coe's experience in having dealt with the DSD question in world athletics is some what timely for him though. It makes him well placed to be able to say he's the best person for the job at this present time despite being male and old.

So yes, I suspect a huge amount of background lobbying has been going on during the games and within athlete circles - which would include those former athletes presenting for the BBC.

In terms of the long game, I suspect the IOC taking the position of passport only checks and no biology or testosterone checks will privately horrify many - remember there's a sizeable number of Americans who will have a massive problem with it too (again election related but this time US election) and many other nations because they will understand the implications of having such a huge loophole. It will only serve to make many athletes take this seriously rather than sympathise with the athletes in question. Caster suggesting they will stand for the president of world athletics (which would come available if Coe took the IOC job) is only likely to help Coe tbh.

I always say that you should listen to what's not being said as much as what is said. My gut feeling this is very much one of those situations, so when the only voice we've really had is Matthew Pinsent of all the people it could be, I do wonder whether it's significant because of the context that's now present with an upcoming job vacancy. Especially given the diplomacy and tact the statement carried.

My colleague is black!

As well as having the respect of other athletes and potentially be speaking for others, I’ve always got the impression that it’s Pinsent's wife who is the main earner in the family - so he’s perhaps less worried about the BBC no longer using him in 2028. It was a very carefully crafted statement. He tweeted last night that he is taking time with family and less twitter, and I suspect it is now time for family holiday etc, but that will also protect him from the blue haired mob. Clever bloke.

I don’t get the whole ‘inclusion’ thing for the Olympics. It’s elite sport, therefore it's elitist by its very nature. People love the Olympic Games because you get to see people like Simone Biles and Mondo Duplantis doing things that are extraordinary, not ordinary.

Found the link I referred to on page5 of this thread:

https://archive.ph/QwQwD

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733607/Imane-Khelif-gender-boxer-olympics-chromosomes.html

Sorry for the daily fail link but the DM is referring to sex chromosome tests as gender tests which is factually incorrect.

@BreatheAndFocus it references a French magazine article. So, sorry, yes it is probably the same. My phone is playing up this morning and I'm not able to follow links. ( time for a new phone!)
I'm just glad it's been in a UK newspaper as I'm hoping that the more this is reported then hopefully there will be a proper test done so that the actual sex of this person can be determined.

yeah, "inclusion" always strikes me as a misnomer. really this is a question about whether you allow decent club level male athletes to identify as elite Olympic podium level female athletes. refusal doesn't stop them from participating at a skill-appropriate level, and furthermore frees up a podium and/or Olympic team place for someone else.

@RedToothBrush
The IOC have not made a secret that they were willing to boot any journalist who didn't tow the official line about the boxing.
I do my best not to be a dick about spelling, but I can't let this one go.
It's not TOW the line, it's toe TOE! And it's a sporting term. Runners put their toe behind the starting line, thereby "toeing the line" and in boxing fighters are toe to toe, which made this feel so egregious to me in relation to the current boxing fiasco.
Just did some reading and its origins are from the royal navy, so I learned something too!

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/09/sport/video/imane-khelif-boxer-presser-attack-woman-paris-olympics-digvid

Listen to Khelife speak, you need to ignore the female English translator. You can hear Imane speak in Arabic in an unmistakable low pitched voice.

I felt the same way when I heard Semanya speak in a Women's hour interview last year. The ears don't deceive you, they are hearing correctly no matter what society tells you.

I do think there’s no point in girls training as elite athletes, I must say.

I think there is, if they get a "no Y chromosomes allowed, ever" sex class to compete in.

I saw a clip on X of Mark Foster also raising his doubts - being very clear about it, and saying he’d been talking to Sharron Davies. Unfortunately it was in an interview on GB News which is probably why it hasn’t been widely shared.

Sorry for the daily fail link

Can we ban this phrase here?! There’s no need for everyone to keep apologising for linking to a media source that consistently reports these important stories. The Daily Mail doesn’t need apologising for, it’s a tired trope that it’s a problematic source. It’s often the ONLY source.

See also: internalised misogynoir.

You are being a dick.

Thanks.

The problem is if you don't apologise then you get ripped apart for posting a link to a right wing news source.

You really can't win. I do agree with you by the way re Daily Mail being one of the very few news sources highlighting this issue.

Just read about her. If indeed her testosterone is 1nmol/L naturally and she hasn’t gone through male puberty I don’t actually care what her chromosomes say. She likely has CAIS and her extra height might be a part of that, so I would be quite happy for her to be on a female team. This is why it’s important to have full screening where there is any issue, and she’s been very open about her medical issues to try and squash any negativity around it.

In my mind that’s a very different situation to the boxers.

That's not true. Honestly. That ship sailed on this subject.

Re: Pinsent speaking on the BBC and whether it would have been 'legalled'/ decided upon by a wider group with him as nominee:

I can't speak about the BBC specifically but I do know that for other broadcasters the Khelif/Lin issue was directed by Comms (ie: PR) so words carefully crafted to both appease the IOC standards and, presumably, any ideological bent of the broadcaster themselves. Comms might have had legal input, but it's primarily a messaging issue, not a risk of legal action issue.

You're welcome. At least your error was amusing.

For me inclusion is the refugee team offering the opportunity to compete to athletes who wouldn't otherwise because they are stateless or providing resources to give working class athletes the chance to reach the Olympics. It's not fellas hitting women.

It's up to Blythin whether or not to disclose a medical diagnosis.

I'm surprised that if this is to happen, that it hasn't in 5 years since the original stories. Unless that is a very rare VSD (even by VSD standards) that is resisting categorisation (e.g., not Mild AIS or PAIS).

Davies, Navratilova, Chris Everett, Daley Thompson - all of them long time GCs in fairness.

Seb Coe. Barry McGuigan (may not have cut through in UK, I'm in ROI).

All the athletes doing the XX signals.

It's definitely making a difference.