Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

[GoogleWhacking]

news.sky.com/story/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-at-centre-of-olympic-gender-row-files-legal-complaint-over-online-harassment-13195264

She could have put this to bed by sharing DNA tests. I'm struggling to feel sympathy, although it must be horrid.

It’s almost as though we don’t know all this already, and haven’t been discussing it for years. Luckily, AI pulls it all together nicely.

It’s almost as though we don’t know all this already, and haven’t been discussing it for years. Luckily, AI pulls it all together nicely.

Quite.

@FlirtsWithRhinos

But I don't think this means we should untangle trans from DSD, I think we need to keep in sight that the question is about male people as a whole not different rules for different groups of male people.

Absolutely. We mustn't forget that it is the TRAs and Queer Theorists who demolished our clear language in order to break down boundaries and categories which means some people are so willing to accept that these men might actually be women, rather than the cheats they would have been known as before.

Khalif is very possibly biological man with internal testicles or testicular tissue.

Did you watch the video above with another “ Female” ( a skier) who is a biological male?

He too lived his first years as a “ Girl”, before testing showed him to be a man.

He thought he was a lesbian because he was attracted to XX women.

He never had periods and was built very differently to his female classmates.

The video is interesting.

Karyotype testing will prove what sex/gender
Khelif is.

Gosh. Could you fit any more hyperbole and catastrophising into one post?

A male person who has chosen to compete in the Olympics after being disqualified, with counselling about what the disqualification means, from international competitions, yet still does so because of weak Olympics regulations and put female people at higher risk of harm is not "a masculine looking woman winning a sporting event." Plus female athlete's efforts and awards are not consolation prizes for male athletes with emotional stories.

Bodies win sports. Emotions are irrelevant compared to male physical advantage.

If any athlete is excluded from a sport that they love for any reason relating to a health condition, they may need to receive mental health support. I hope that they do receive great mental health support.

However, female athlete's needs should not be dismissed and the voices supporting those athletes should not be shamed into silence under threat that their reasonable words cause harm.

No one should receive abuse. However, abuse is not people using precise and clear language to describe the situation. And it is not choosing to use sex based pronouns instead of the pronouns someone wants people to use. That is your own personal choice. That fits with your philosophical belief and no one has to comply to that belief when the science states that a person with a male genotype that has a body that has been virilised by using the testosterone produced by their own body to produce a male advantage is categorised as a male person.

And if you are speaking of 'power hungry bullies', what do you reckon motivates a male boxer to compete in the protected category of female sports with the full knowledge that they are male with a male physical advantage?

As she should. She has been subject to awful abuse

Agree - eligibility is defined by complying with the qualifying criteria of the governing body for each individual sport (athletics, equestrians etc). The issue here is that the IOC excommunicated the IBA but did not establish rules that comply with those governing the worldwide practice of the sport (ie those set by the IBA). They could have - and should have - adopted the rules and criteria that are used by all men and women competing in the sport. I think Seb Coe will build bridges with the IBA and/or adopt their criteria as it is in line with other sporting bodies. The IOC is utterly to blame for the inconsistencies in this individual sport.

Local laws on DEI have no relevance other than to the employment of event staff and the provision of public facilities during the period.

Oh the wonders of AI…
Amazing!

Thank you for your contribution.

Have a nice day.

(Can we get an automated response to ploppers who haven't bothered to read the thread or engage with other posters?)

If any athlete is excluded from a sport that they love for any reason relating to a health condition, they may need to receive mental health support. I hope that they do receive great mental health support.

It's one of the reasons that there is careful consideration around testing for things like CRY (cardiac risk in the young).

How many teenage potential stars have career-ending injuries? It's a remarkably common occurrence. It's survivor bias that we recall the inspirational stories about people who came back to triumph, there are so many more who don't and it's not for lack of determination or resolve.

I can't find it but years ago Michael Johnson had a short piece with the BBC (maybe 2012?). He described how there are world class athletes for whom nothing works out. They have an illness or an injury at the wrong time that sends their training awry. Politics means that they can't attend. All sorts of events. They never achieve their potential but that is no indication of their level of skill or dedication. It was a remarkable, thoughtful, compassionate and humble piece that gave me chills. It left me hoping that one day Johnson will release a recording of Roosevelt's The Man in the Arena speech.

Do you honestly, really, in your heart of hearts, believe what you've written? Do you honestly believe Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting are women? Honestly?

If you do, it's no wonder we're in this dystopian mess.

I would have sympathy if either of these athletes hadn't known for YEARS that they're male. But they've known. As have all the people around them. The cover up and dissembling is appalling and people going along with the fairy tale makes me want to bash my head against a brick wall at the sheer magnitude of the lies and stupidity.

Yes. I have had family members and friends who have been Olympic standard athletes, but due to circumstances beyond their control at all, they either had to pull out of the Olympic team they had been chosen for or missed getting selected.

I have also had a friend who was an Olympian but then failed to get another chance.

I find all the emoting to be really hyperbolic at this point. Each of those family members and friends had inspiring histories, and had to come to terms with their situations. This 'whataboutery' is pure emotional manipulation at this stage.

I thought you were joking at first!

Yep.

It's like those applying the emotional blackmail know fine well who the guys are....

I thought you were joking at first!

No, the use of AI generated stuff by ploppers and such is quite common.

If we were allowed to refer to Bunbury, it would be time to update her handbook (the Guide to Community Disruptors) to incorporate this comparatively recent development (well, over the last 2 years, anyway).

Or is it merely hot air for publicly and no court case will emerge?

For publicity, for sympathy from the misinformed public, and for the benefit of the "chilling effect".

Has soft used AI to write all their posts? Maybe explains the lack of understanding?

Thank you for the explanation.

They can't even argue their own points. Sigh.

I was musing about the "difficulties" of sports classification this morning over my custard danish.

Imagine three people of equal athletic ability and weight.

A has an F on their passport. They were assigned male at birth and now identity as female. They have xy chromosomes, an sry gene and are sensitive to androgens.

B has an F on their passport. They were assigned female at birth and identify as female. They have xy chromosomes, an sry gene and are sensitive to androgens.

C has an M on their passport. They were assigned male at birth and identify as male. They have xy chromosomes, an sry gene and are sensitive to androgens.

C is sad because he's not good enough to qualify for the olympics but he sees his equally mediocre pals A & B smashing it in the women's category.

Should C be able to sue for sex discrimination? We know that entry to the women's category doesn't hinge on self identifying as female as we also have:

D who has an M on their passport, was assigned female at birth, identifies as male, has xx chromosomes, no sry gene and is waiting until their sporting career is over before starting testosterone to avoid doping charges.

What a mess. Three identical male bodies (maybe C has a small willy - lets keep our minds out of their pants as we're told all good allies should), but only C doesn't get to go to the olympics. Won't someone think of the mediocre males that don't get to compete?

C should have grifted harder.

What ARE you on about?

I'm a "real woman" thanks. As are most of us here. You know, the type born female, a female karyotype, XX, a member of the group that have historically been treated as second class citizens/property for merely being born a member of our demographic and who the new sexists larping as us in their new outfits but armed with the same old lazy sexist stereotypes as they've always had are trying to persuade don't matter and are here to serve them.

Khelif, however, is not a woman from what we can tell. He almost certainly has a DSD, most likely 5-ARD, which gives him male advantage and means he should not be in combat sports against actual women because it's both unsafe and deeply unfair and unsporting. Having a DSD is no doubt a horrible thing, but it is not female athlete's job to get punched in the face so he can win as compensation for that.

Personally, I feel physically sick at a) the syrupy hyperbole from people who literally don't give a shit about REAL WOMEN BEING BEATEN UP ON TV FOR SPORT but even imagine they're being the "good people" in some way because of it. How can you imagine this? Look at what you're actually saying and supporting! Regressive, violent misogyny and subjugation of women. Well done you. b) the constant misogyny and abusive gaslighting, including now by public bodies c) the constant emotional manipulation and hyperbole.

"Real women" aren't support humans or male validation tools. Some people really need to get that into their thick heads. Oh, and we're not going to shut up about what we've seen here. The emotive hyperbole doesn't work on us. Women matter too. Our rights are human rights too. We are not put here to serve.

Just for fun, I looked at soft's posts on other topics. I checked two in AIBU and both also came back as 100% AI.

Well that's opened my eyes to bots spamming the forum.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5138472-abroadshould-have-stayed-at-home?page=2&reply=137427793

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5138865-need-urgent-advice-to-lose-weight-quickly-bridesmaid-dress-doesnt-fit?page=8&reply=137444102

Yes, C should definitely apply to the passport office as a crossdresser. No need for a doctor's note, any clothes are women's clothes, and Dave is definitely a unisex name.

Hurrah! Another podium properly diversified.

Should AI-generated posts be banned/blocked on MN? Or 'labelled' somehow?

Well, Semenya raised a very valid point this week about being discriminated against under the IOC's eye.

Remember, Semenya cannot compete in the Olympics because the WA finally created a policy that excluded the now obvious male athlete with male pubertal advantage from competition. Because the IOC refused to exhibit leadership and decided to make the international sporting federations responsible for the policy and any litigation.

However, these two male athletes can compete because the IOC excluded the IBA and ignored the IBA policy, the one that excluded these two athletes.

Semenya raises the issue of discrimination. Because if Semenya had trained as a boxer last year, Semenya could have competed in the boxing but not their speciality. Because the IOC has allowed this inconsistency to occur.

And I am quite sure that if it went to court the CAS would most likely agree that in boxing it is a significant safety issue.