What is a woman?

[concretevase]

I just wanted to clarify what everyone thought this meant given recent events at the olympics.

A person born with a uterus and vagina, raised female, with boobs and has periods and the ability to carry and birth a child is not a woman?

Well, quite.

But also, it appears from what Dr Emma Hilton and other experts say, these boxers have internal testes. They are male in that they would be incapable of conceiving and gestating a foetus.

Hermaphrodites are mythical- they’ve never existed.

Yes but they’re not found in the uterus are they?

Do you know how the female reproductive system works? If not, I recommended googling it before you go any further. It’ll help your argument.

It’s difficult to understand your point because you clearly haven’t done much research on (or don’t quite understand) basic biology. That makes it hard to take you seriously when the topic of discussion is biology-related.

I feel deeply sorry for anyone in this situation. But their feelings don’t make it ok for them to box as female in the olympics, any more than it would be ok to allow a heavyweight boxer to compete with a flyweight boxer because they didn’t like how heavy they were or felt like they were a flyweight boxer or had broken scales and thought they were a different weight than they were. It would suck for them and we could be sympathetic, but that wouldn’t make it ok to let them compete against people much smaller and weaker than them.

Well quite. Someone once told me I looked like a man when I had my hair cut short. I thought he was a rude prat. I didn't start thinking all women with short hair are actually male.

I think you're probably right. Might unwatch the thread so I'm not tempted to engage again, it's too frustrating.

I do admire your patience on this type of thread!

This is like headbutting a floor.

https://x.com/reduxxmag/status/1823060424092197202?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

A female boxer who trained with Imane Khelif has come forward to assert that Khelif "is a man."

Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains.

That's astonishing!

The issue of Khelif’s sex came up during the Sofia training session, with members of the Algerian National Team apparently playing defense for Khelif and insisting to other participants that he was a woman who had somehow been biologically altered by living in the mountains.

Khelif’s] teammates came to me and told me ‘Imane is not a man. She is a woman and just lives high in the mountains with her relatives and parents and so there may be a change in her testosterone or chromosomes and the like,'” Nwamerue says. “So myself and my coach watched [Khelif] and I said ‘that can’t be possible.’ Everywhere has people living in the mountains. It’s absurd.”

Nwamerue adds that her coach replied incredulously, questioning the “mountain” theory of Khelif’s physical abnormalities by noting that other world and European boxing federations had implemented bans on him, and that “only the Olympics” was allowing Khelif to compete.

“Obviously there’s some competition between federations and they’re shitting on one another, but it’s extremely unfair. It’s like pitting a motorcycle against a bicycle,” Nwamerue explains. “For people who don’t understand combat sports. Motor vs bicycle. Will the bicycle be faster and win, or the motorbike?”

So the evidence we have that Khelif is male:

The two IBA chromosome tests carried out by independent, reputable labs in 2022 and 2023, in response to complaints about several boxers by female boxers and their coaches

The fact that Khelif dropped the challenge to the Court of Arbitration in Sport

The legal threats to the IBA by Algerias Olympic committee if they published the tests

The experience of women who have fought against Khelif, that it felt like being hit by a man

The interview with coach George Cazorla which stated that Khelif has a problem with chromosomes, karyotype and has to suppress testosterone

The facepalm moment where the IOC confidently stated that it was "not a DSD case" then had to formally and publicly correct this statement, to say that they had meant to say "transgender case".

The experience of Joana Nwamerue and the fact that she was told a cock and bull story about "living in the mountains"

But sure, no evidence, nothing to see at all

OPks been gaslit and seems to be busy trying to share it around.

@Helleofabore thank you for your timeline of events.

Well, my name is now Jackie, but I used to be known by my fullname, Jacqueline. Is it dead-naming and highly offensive when someone calls me this? Must let my mother know.

FFS

Chromosomes changed by living at altitude. That is outstanding when you think of it.

Don’t forget the Spanish coach who discussed the boxing camp where Khelif injured two female well known Spanish boxers and each bout was immediately stopped. And then Khelif had a bout with males and that was ‘evenly matched’.

I am sure that that will be considered out that the Spanish women were just not good enough though.

I understood that a coach or coaches had also confirmed a DSD? That is the definitive proof for me. A DSD would be irrelevant for a female boxer. It can only be relevant if the boxer is male. Then you're into whether a DSD makes a man a woman and the answer is clearly no. Because a man cannot be a woman and there are only two sexes in humans. There isn't anything in between and you can't change sex.

I'm going with 'really rather small'.

a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains

You what now?

That's .... not ... no. Just no

The Rachel Mckinnon i was referring to is the author of the graph. It says that name on it. To use any other name would be outing. Until the person who produced the graph changes the name on it to their new one it would be wrong of me to draw attention to the change. Try educating yourself.

Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains.

This is the advanced biology people have been talking about.

It's certainly 'high level' biology. So high it's suffering from altitude sickness.

The basic biology is that once we're conceived, our chromosomes don't change. Chromosomal mutation & change happens via sexual reproduction: the mixing of the genetic materials of the small and the large gametes at conception.

This mountains business is a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of something that’s true.

Tibetans and Nepalese have adapted to high altitudes, hence Sherpas supporting mountaineers on Everest.

If I remember correctly they are likely to be short due to reduced blood flow to the placenta.

So if I understand correctly Imane could have bigger lung capacity and a richer blood supply to muscles.

It doesn’t cause women to grow testes though. At least, not according to Wikipedia 😉

🤦‍♀️

More biology lessons needed for this one. Eggs are not produced in the uterus.