Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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Too late for worrying, Fenlandia!

It's the best being the enemy of the good, isn't it? But a lame argument. So, rather than risk the vanishingly small possibility than an athlete with a very rare DSD who happened to be XY and female, and also good enough to be at elite competition level, might be harshly done by, it'd be better to screw over women athletes? Why not go for a system that is 99.9% fair, rather than the status quo, which clearly has no fairness at all?

Well that explains why mountainous regions are sparsely populated - all the lay-dees get turned into menz.

😍

I just had a quick skim of the first 20-30 pages of Chand’s CAS ruling and fuck me, it reads like it was written by Rachel Veronica Ivy McKinnon 😬

Basically, we don’t know what caused Chand’s unusual level of testosterone because under the IAAF 2011 gender eligibility rules they weren’t allowed to take anything into consideration when assessing an athlete’s sex except their testosterone levels!

They could send athletes for chromosome tests/abdominal ultrasounds etc (‘Three Step Testing’) but only to try and work out whether the extra T was generated by the athletes own gonads or if they were doping.
If the T levels were coming from the ‘female’ athlete’s massive, totally healthy, testicles?

No biggie, still a lady, still totally eligible for the lady category!
As long as Wilhemena Big Balls was willing to suppress T levels to under 10nmol per litre all was well in the world!

Chand did not undergo Three Step Testing and was unwilling to lower T levels, Caster Semenya tried for a while but started losing)

Here’s some fun, gaslighty extracts - I particularly like the ‘It’s sexist to set a high testosterone limit for women because men don’t have a cap’ ruse, bearing in mind that the testosterone cap was a) well above naturally occurring female levels and b) that T under 10nmol per litre was the only physical criteria that was used to decide if an athlete was eligible for the female category!

The expert witnesses are all disagreeing with each other but one pair of experts did state that almost all female athletes tested for testosterone levels were under 3nmol per litre and the ONLY ones that weren’t under 3 were the ‘female’ athletes with XY chromosomes plus 3 biological females who were suspected of doping!

Which explains how come Caster Semenya (court case 4 years after Chand’s) was described as a ‘female athlete with high testosterone’ for the first several years of Caster’s career (an inaccuracy that still persists in the press today) - the only criteria the IAAF had for defining femaleness was sex on your ID paperwork plus testosterone under 10nmol - Caster ticked the (erroneous) F on the birth cert criteria but failed the second criteria, hence being declared as ‘high T’ female.

www.doping.nl/media/kb/3317/CAS%202014_A_3759%20Dutee%20Chand%20vs.%20AFI%20%26%20IAAF%20%28S%29.pdf

So in Rio, three men won medals in a women's event, and hardly anyone knew at the time, and even now, only a minority probably do. And in Paris, two men won boxing gold. And a few more people know. Is this progress? Hopefully enough to shake the IOC up a bit, with Bach going.

I remember it being commonly thought at the time that Semenya was a woman with high testosterone who was a victim of racist bias against "manly" women. The NYT was pretty clear about this as I recall. At the time I don't think there was anything about DSDs in the media.

And I should add that at the time there had not been any well-known incidents of trans women entering women's sports and claiming to be women. Even though this wasn't that long ago, things have changed a lot since then. The thinking as I recall really was that this was a woman being unfairly judged.

Reduxx now has the article up on the interview with Joana Nwamerue. https://reduxx.info/khelif-is-a-man-female-boxer-who-fought-imane-khelif-speaks-out-claims-algerian-boxing-team-told-her-khelif-had-been-biologically-altered-by-living-in-the-mountains/ including a summary of past articles.

Isn't elite competition level too late to start testing ?

Because it's unfair for DSD athletes to find out they're ineligible only at a comparatively advanced stage in their career.

But most especially because all women need to be treated fairly and safely in sport, not just the relatively small numbers at the top.

So you're using scientific rigour? How do you know for sure that you're correct? You're relying on:

• Hearsay
• Biased discussion board posts
• Limited information from a corrupt sorting federation
• Medical testimony from above federation

And it has been a hubbub. That can't be denied.

Love all the “IBA is corrupt!!! You can’t trust them or the labs they used! 😱” bullshit that conveniently ignores the IOC’s history of corruption and its blatant refusal to do simple tests that would answer the question. They’re all about pushing women out of sport to give lying, mediocre male cheats the limelight.

I love how you're just repeating Russian bot propaganda. "IBA good! IOC bad!"

I never said the IOC was squeaky clean. I also think your last statement is simply exaggeration so I can't take the rest of what you say seriously.

The karyotype was analysed at two independent testing laboratories, the results have been independently witnessed, and a member of Khelif’s own team has confirmed the findings.

But sure, let’s still pretend we’ve always been at war with Eastasia and Ignorance is Strength🙄

If they were XY females that would make them Swyers, right? And that quite evidently is not the case----

Their team have said that after their own testing showed an issue testosterone levels are being suppressed. There would be no need if the DSD in question is Swyers.

Hilarious that some are still clutching at straws given how much information has now been given by their own team.

And you'll notice I never said the IBA was squeaky clean, either. If it comes to not taking statements seriously, I don't take seriously any of the bullshit claiming these men are women. I take it as bog-standard male supremacism.

Does anyone on this thread not accept that Khelif has a DSD?

I'm getting angrier and angrier at the "racism" claims that the boxers are being held to Western (ie white) beauty standards
Ffs women look like women the world over! The only racists are the ones who seem to have some bizarre notions that this isn't the case.

Ok, turn it around, where is the evidence that Khelif and Lin are female?

Why haven't they just done a couple of gender tests, make everyone look stupid? And given the 'hubbub' from the IBA, female competitors present & former, there's more than enough reason for reasonable doubt.

All Khelif has done is pronouncements, rather than given solid evidence.

Rumour has it that Valentina Petrillo will be competing at the Paralympics so all the nonsense about being “born female” and “raised female” will fall by the wayside. Petrillo is 50 years old now and only “transitioned” 5 years ago. Petrillo wouldn’t be eligible for the Olympics because WA have banned men from competing in the female category but it seems that the IOC regulate athletics in the Paralympics and they say men are welcome to compete wherever they please. I wonder if they’ve even checked if Petrillo actually has a visual impairment or if they just take his word for it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/paralympics/article-13736061/amp/Visually-impaired-Italian-sprinter-50-set-transgender-Paralympian-picked-run-womens-races-Paris-five-years-started-gender-transition.html

I just saw this - the fucking cheek!

Is there a separate body for the para Olympics?

You forgot about the evidence from his own trainer…

https://reduxx.info/khelifs-coach-confirms-problem-with-chromosomes-as-spanish-national-boxing-team-commissioner-reveals-that-khelif-was-considered-too-dangerous-to-train-against-women/

Petrillo is an absolute shocker. They have no excuse here at all, not even the paper-thin objection of 'born a woman'. According to Reduxx, Petrillo was still listed as male on his ID documents in 2020 when he ran in the Italian Paralympic Championships, won the 100, 200 and 400m races, and promptly qualified for the Tokyo Olympics. The Italian government stepped in at the last minute to stop that injustice happening.

“Under Rule 4.5 of World Para Athletics' rules and regulations, the governing body states that athletes who are legally recognised as a women are eligible to compete in female disciplines.

“The regulation adds: 'World Para Athletics will deal with any cases involving transgender athletes in accordance with the International Olympic Committee's transgender guidelines.'

“That policy differs from World Athletics' stance, however, who banned transgender athletes from competing in women's events in March 2023, with Lord Sebastian Coe, the president of World Athletics, stating that the decision was take to ensure fairness and 'protect the female category'.”