Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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Thread 3

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Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Khelif started boxing at 17. I can't believe there wouldn't be a suspicion of something awry at that point, when no menstruation had occurred.

Definitely misunderstood, I was simply saying that because FWR isn't what I'd call radfem, and MNHQ far from it.

I didn't read your reply to me as snippy at all. :)

Yes, even there you get plonkers doing the Be Kind rubbish.

Has anyone seen this picture of the poor delicate little flower? I saw it on another Ovarit thread.

As ever; follow the money

There will be somebody who agrees to fight.

I was looking up Barbara Buttrick (British woman who was first World Champion in Women's Boxing, 1957) and came across this brief news piece from June '24.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxeelmvyd9go

In other write-ups, they heavily emphasise that because women's boxing opportunities were so limited in the UK/Europe, she had to train with men and needed to fight exhibition bouts with them (she moved to the US for some time and seems to have trained at the same gym as Ali).

Khelif told a press conference after winning her medal: 'I am a woman like any woman. I was born a woman and I have lived as a woman but there are enemies to success and they can't digest my success.'
She later added: 'All that is being said about me on social media is immoral. I want to change the minds of people around the world.'

Would Khelif do this if she didn't really identify as a woman??

I would suggest it’s vanishingly unlikely that, at this point, having

• Competed 'as a woman'
• Won a gold medal 'as a woman'
• Become a national heroine 'as a woman'
• Looking to monetise all the above as much as possible
• having apparently issued legal proceedings for ‘harassment'
• Having a very professional French/American/Algerian team pushing very hard
• Being endorsed by the Algerian head of the African sports body….

……that Khelif is suddenly going to cough, in front of cameras, to the whole thing being one enormous con.

What an amazing woman.

eatfigs
... about Caster Semenya:

Britain's Daily Mirror went so far as to point out her name is an anagram for the phrase: "A secret man? Yes."

Goodness, that's unfortunate!

Imane suffers a health condition that precludes her fighting women.

Many people lose their ability to compete at elite level due to health conditions.

Like pregnancy, among others.

would suggest it’s vanishingly unlikely that, at this point...

……that Khelif is suddenly going to cough, in front of cameras, to the whole thing being one enormous con

@Zeugma
Taking a legal challenge against harassment is a pretty big step though and could so easily go wrong for Khelif?

Wouldn't it be more prudent to stay quiet and say nothing if you really thought you were in the wrong?

Much more prudent, and I wouldn't be surprised if this legal action is quietly put on the back-burner.

Taking a legal challenge against harassment is a pretty big step though and could so easily go wrong for Khelif?

It may have been on another thread, sorry, I can’t remember now as there are so many comments - but someone pointed out that the legal action (if it happens) is for harassment. Not for saying Khelif isn’t a woman. A significant distinction.

Well, the harassment was for not being a woman in a woman's competition...it'll come up, surely?

Surely the test is 'I've experienced hurty feelings because people have been mean to me'? IANAL but there was a whole discussion about this on this or another thread. I’ll see if I can find it.

I mean, don’t get me wrong, if it led to Khelif having to take a test and the results published for all to see, I’d be there for it.

In passing, I note that Le Monde is all about the poor traduced female, complete with the usual JKR, Donald Trump, far-right memes. But surprised by that, I thought LM was pretty centrist-conservative. Dunno how typical that is of the French press.

www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/08/09/paris-olympics-the-disinformation-campaign-against-algerian-boxer-imane-khelif_6712033_8.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733607/Imane-Khelif-gender-boxer-olympics-chromosomes.html

Daily Mail have reported on the interview in Le Monde.

Reading the le point article it makes it obvious the Khelif lost power and mass when testosterone was reduced, what isn’t known is the level of testosterone at the Olympics. Not only did the team around him know there is no way that Khelif didn’t know the advantages of the condition. With all the words used not only as Khelif avoided the XX the threat of legal action completely avoids the accusations of biological sex instead a vague harassment.

I thought that the legal challenge was a hoax?

Imane has been taking drugs to suppress testosterone. That suggests an understanding of the condition. Unless he’s been treated by unethical medics who have treated him without informed consent.

I mean, come on.

The testosterone suppression also means that Khelif can't have Swyers as there would be no testosterone and also that it can't be CAIS as there would be no point in lowering testosterone

Which we pretty much knew anyway as it’s evident Khelif has been through male puberty, because we have eyes 👀 . But yes, that’s accurate.

I'm a long time lurker and very infrequent poster. I've been glued to this story. Kudos to the people who've been educating us about DSDs and developmental biology - a good few on here, and more on twitter. Thank you, thank you.

I just want to offer these words as I found them really useful when someone explained the biology to me. Basically that there are two "developmental pathways" and they are completely distinct. You either develop along the male pathway, or the female pathway. The pathways are determined by chromosomes. Even if something goes "wrong" somewhere along the way, you are still EITHER on a male developmental pathway OR you're on a female developmental pathway.

(PS This whole saga has been a complete train wreck. I feel sympathy for all involved and lay blame at the feet of the IOC.)

It would amount to admitting the Khelif has been fraudulent in accepting a medal, and a place on any female team.

No one is going to allow Khelif to do this from within Khelif's team. Who would employ them again?