Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian article- disgusting euphemism of the systematic rape of 1400 children

135 replies

Heylo · 06/08/2024 08:32

I read this article last night and I am livid. She discusses the riots in Rotherham. She mentions ‘a town with past tensions’. She makes no mention of the systematic and paedophilic rape of 1400 children.

classic guardian, don’t talk about it and don’t report it if it doesn’t fit the narrative.

I can’t wait for this women hating, gay people hating, MRM loving rag to bankrupt.

here’s the article below. Pls consider writing into complain. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/05/a-dark-day-anger-in-rotherham-after-riot-at-hotel-housing-asylum-seekers

‘A dark day’: anger in Rotherham after riot at hotel housing asylum seekers

Residents attempt clean-up after far-right mob attacked police, smashed windows and tried to set building on fire

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/05/a-dark-day-anger-in-rotherham-after-riot-at-hotel-housing-asylum-seekers

OP posts:
Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dumbo12 · 08/08/2024 16:43

I have worked with prostituted and trafficked women and girls, over a 40 year career. Those prostituting and trafficking women and girls are off all races, colours, creeds and socio economic backgrounds. The thing that stands out to me is that nearly, but not quite, 100 percent of them are men.

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 16:54

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 16:24

This is whataboutery
But just for info he's been immediately suspended by the Labour Party, calling it unacceptable. It'll take a few days to know what the police response is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-councillor-cut-throats-speech-walthamstow-protest-b2593240.html

Meanwhile Sunak is noticeable by his absence and various Conservative MPs and councillors appear sympathetic to the riots.

I will give Priti Patel credit for criticising the riots and rioters in very strong terms.

But not arrested?

Southwestten · 08/08/2024 17:01

Also Devizes, I think.

Devizes in Wiltshire? Are you sure? I live quite near Devizes and there’s never been any publicity about it if so - nor rumours.

Mrsdyna · 08/08/2024 17:10

I don't know what the guardian achieves by often leaving out key information. It just makes them not credible.

People scoff at the daily mail and pretend that the guardian is a beacon of truth when it really isn't.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/08/2024 17:17

People scoff at the daily mail and pretend that the guardian is a beacon of truth when it really isn't.

Indeed.

aladderformoths · 08/08/2024 17:44

Well, from reading this thread it seems like one of the many adverse ill effects of these riots is that people are again associating those concerned about the targeting of non-Muslim girls by a minority sub-set of pakistani-Muslim origin men (which is ongoing) with racists.

We need the honesty to recognise that human behaviours happen, and are shaped, by social and cultural contexts, and this is true of sexual offending behaviour too. Isn't this why the rise of social media and online interconnectivity and online violent misogynistic pornography ( which seems to be nearly all of it) is so concerning? Because it creates a culture which normalises male sexual arousal at abuse of women. It allows men to get together and socially bond over fantasises of hurting women ( the man who was planning to kidnap Holly W was part of such an online group who shared their fantasies of abducting and raping women). Cultures can either reduce the likelihood of men harming women or increase the likelihood of men harming women.

From an analysis I read, the location of the grooming gangs coincides with areas where rural Pakistani immigrants settled. The grooming gangs have not appeared in areas where urban, more educated Pakistani Muslims tended to settle. In other words, it seems like there was something about the culture/ attitude of these particular populations that led a minority of the men there on the path to become offenders.

I went to school in the West Midlands in an area where the grooming gangs operated. My (white) friend was recruited to become the 'girlfriend' of a Muslim man by her Hindu friend who had a Muslim 'boyfriend'. They were both 14. Except they were not girlfriends as the men would never be seen in public with them but picked them up and took them back to a flat to have sex with them. The man my friend was having sex with told her that he would never do this a Muslim woman as he would have too much respect for her. He clearly saw his behaviour within a cultural-religious context. Now as far as I know, the treatment of my friend did not reach the awful levels reported by the poor girls reported in the press. But these were still men preying on under age school girls. I never asked the age of these men and have always assumed they were young adult men. If so, I suspect part of the reason for their behaviour was that they could not access women in their own community for sex coupled with their personal religious-cultural beliefs that gave them a lack of respect for non-Muslim women. The old misogynistic good women/bad women narrative as expressed through their cultural narrative.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that we need to have a good analysis of a problem before we can start to form a solution. We need to be honest about the factors that lead certain men, or any ethnicity or community - geographic/ cultural or community of interest - to harm women, so that we can target effective solutions at those groups to reduce the risk of their offending.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 17:54

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 16:54

But not arrested?

See above link. Yes, arrested. And suspended. And his language called out as totally unacceptable.

Great response from all involved imo.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 18:02

aladderformoths · 08/08/2024 17:44

Well, from reading this thread it seems like one of the many adverse ill effects of these riots is that people are again associating those concerned about the targeting of non-Muslim girls by a minority sub-set of pakistani-Muslim origin men (which is ongoing) with racists.

We need the honesty to recognise that human behaviours happen, and are shaped, by social and cultural contexts, and this is true of sexual offending behaviour too. Isn't this why the rise of social media and online interconnectivity and online violent misogynistic pornography ( which seems to be nearly all of it) is so concerning? Because it creates a culture which normalises male sexual arousal at abuse of women. It allows men to get together and socially bond over fantasises of hurting women ( the man who was planning to kidnap Holly W was part of such an online group who shared their fantasies of abducting and raping women). Cultures can either reduce the likelihood of men harming women or increase the likelihood of men harming women.

From an analysis I read, the location of the grooming gangs coincides with areas where rural Pakistani immigrants settled. The grooming gangs have not appeared in areas where urban, more educated Pakistani Muslims tended to settle. In other words, it seems like there was something about the culture/ attitude of these particular populations that led a minority of the men there on the path to become offenders.

I went to school in the West Midlands in an area where the grooming gangs operated. My (white) friend was recruited to become the 'girlfriend' of a Muslim man by her Hindu friend who had a Muslim 'boyfriend'. They were both 14. Except they were not girlfriends as the men would never be seen in public with them but picked them up and took them back to a flat to have sex with them. The man my friend was having sex with told her that he would never do this a Muslim woman as he would have too much respect for her. He clearly saw his behaviour within a cultural-religious context. Now as far as I know, the treatment of my friend did not reach the awful levels reported by the poor girls reported in the press. But these were still men preying on under age school girls. I never asked the age of these men and have always assumed they were young adult men. If so, I suspect part of the reason for their behaviour was that they could not access women in their own community for sex coupled with their personal religious-cultural beliefs that gave them a lack of respect for non-Muslim women. The old misogynistic good women/bad women narrative as expressed through their cultural narrative.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that we need to have a good analysis of a problem before we can start to form a solution. We need to be honest about the factors that lead certain men, or any ethnicity or community - geographic/ cultural or community of interest - to harm women, so that we can target effective solutions at those groups to reduce the risk of their offending.

Could you share where you read this as it seems like a huge generalisation?
And bear in mind that research has shown its not possible to link these crimes to a particular ethnicity. The Daily Mail were forced to print an apology and withdraw Suella Braverman's comments when she wrote and article saying similar to what you just have.

One way to ensure you are discussing a valid concern rather than being influenced by prejudice is to check the evidence. Anything stereotypical (x community does y) I'd check the data carefully.

With male violence it's obvious and overwhelmingly backed by statistics. With this kind of ethnic stereotype, it often isn't.

Grammarnut · 08/08/2024 18:09

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 15:49

The crimes came out around the time of the Oldham riots and the police were nervous about triggering other riots. The last week shows exactly why.

The far right in this context are causing their own problems by their tendency to go off half cocked with a violent response to a difficult problem.

Meanwhile the victims are largely ignored by this focus on the men.

Maybe if we listened to all victims of crime and didn't assume teenage girls were liars/gold diggers/enjoying it, this wouldn't happen as much.

Also, I remember that T. Robinson tried to name the defendants before the trial, nearly causing the trial to be called off - idiot.

Grammarnut · 08/08/2024 18:20

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 18:02

Could you share where you read this as it seems like a huge generalisation?
And bear in mind that research has shown its not possible to link these crimes to a particular ethnicity. The Daily Mail were forced to print an apology and withdraw Suella Braverman's comments when she wrote and article saying similar to what you just have.

One way to ensure you are discussing a valid concern rather than being influenced by prejudice is to check the evidence. Anything stereotypical (x community does y) I'd check the data carefully.

With male violence it's obvious and overwhelmingly backed by statistics. With this kind of ethnic stereotype, it often isn't.

@aladderformoths has made the point succinctly. If I remember the men in Rotherham came from Waziristan, which borders Afghanistan. The culture there is an 'honour' culture, which includes punishment rape and death to women and girls who transgress codes e.g. by being raped or refusing to marry where they are told, or in order to punish a woman's family for insulting the honour of a higher status family.

You will maybe have seen the numerous protests by women in India, against a culture that sees rape as an unimportant crime (esp. when against low-caste women or debt-slaves) for which young men's lives should not be ruined. Last year there were demonstrations when the President remitted sentences for men who had raped a pregnant woman and murdered her relatives.
Different cultures see women in different ways. We have taken centuries in Europe to corral sentiments that see women as things (as recently as the 1960s Sicily's honour culture demanded that a rape victim marry her rapist, restitutional marriage, so that rape was used as a means to force a woman to marry a man she did not want). If we now have sections of our community that include men who only respect women of their faith then this needs to be addressed. I am not suggesting solutions but the evidence is there @CassieMaddox , it's not a generalisation, it is an examination of cultures that shows these factors on the home ground, not just here.

Dumbo12 · 08/08/2024 18:31

So what do people think made it acceptable to afro Caribbean men to pimp and rape girls? Men from just about every culture and religion rape and pimp women and girls, often from other cultures.
It isn't x or y men, it's men

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 18:35

as recently as the 1960s Sicily's honour culture demanded that a rape victim marry her rapist, restitutional marriage

In America child marriage (below 18) is still legal most states, including with no lower age limit in five states. And marriage to your rapist can still be demanded culturally, not least because it exempts the rapist from statutory rape charges in some states:

19thnews.org/2023/07/explaining-child-marriage-laws-united-states/

TempestTost · 08/08/2024 18:50

Mrsdyna · 08/08/2024 17:10

I don't know what the guardian achieves by often leaving out key information. It just makes them not credible.

People scoff at the daily mail and pretend that the guardian is a beacon of truth when it really isn't.

There are still a lot of people who believe they are the standard for what is true, because the don't print actual incorrect facts

Menopausalsourpuss · 08/08/2024 19:01

Yes misleading by omission is just as bad as printing lies in some ways ad not so blatant. And has led people to get their info from social media which politicians and msm (their rivals) then blame for misinformation! The cheek!

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 19:08

Menopausalsourpuss · 08/08/2024 19:01

Yes misleading by omission is just as bad as printing lies in some ways ad not so blatant. And has led people to get their info from social media which politicians and msm (their rivals) then blame for misinformation! The cheek!

No. It isn't.
If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. Therefore there is no "misleading by omission", there's being responsible and not spreading conspiracy theories.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 19:10

Grammarnut · 08/08/2024 18:20

@aladderformoths has made the point succinctly. If I remember the men in Rotherham came from Waziristan, which borders Afghanistan. The culture there is an 'honour' culture, which includes punishment rape and death to women and girls who transgress codes e.g. by being raped or refusing to marry where they are told, or in order to punish a woman's family for insulting the honour of a higher status family.

You will maybe have seen the numerous protests by women in India, against a culture that sees rape as an unimportant crime (esp. when against low-caste women or debt-slaves) for which young men's lives should not be ruined. Last year there were demonstrations when the President remitted sentences for men who had raped a pregnant woman and murdered her relatives.
Different cultures see women in different ways. We have taken centuries in Europe to corral sentiments that see women as things (as recently as the 1960s Sicily's honour culture demanded that a rape victim marry her rapist, restitutional marriage, so that rape was used as a means to force a woman to marry a man she did not want). If we now have sections of our community that include men who only respect women of their faith then this needs to be addressed. I am not suggesting solutions but the evidence is there @CassieMaddox , it's not a generalisation, it is an examination of cultures that shows these factors on the home ground, not just here.

I thought a lot of the men were born in the UK.
If you are correct and it's that localised to a geographical area, then a conversation about Muslim practices or even Pakistani practices is largely irrelevant and potentially misleading.

Omlettes · 08/08/2024 19:49

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 19:08

No. It isn't.
If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. Therefore there is no "misleading by omission", there's being responsible and not spreading conspiracy theories.

'If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. '

I'm sorry but that is just painfully naive.
Omission to suit narrative is daily practise in journalism left or right on any number of topics and for any number of reasons, wether by editorial choice, owners preference, advertisers pressure or by government decree.

I genuinely cant believe you said that.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 20:01

Omlettes · 08/08/2024 19:49

'If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. '

I'm sorry but that is just painfully naive.
Omission to suit narrative is daily practise in journalism left or right on any number of topics and for any number of reasons, wether by editorial choice, owners preference, advertisers pressure or by government decree.

I genuinely cant believe you said that.

Edited

Yes, I agree. Omission across all mainstream media sites far less likely though and would tend to imply a legal restriction rather than any ideological one.

I think if one can't verify something through mainstream media it's safer to assume its made up. People can easily get radicalised and sucked in by misinformation and I'm not so naive or arrogant that I assume that would not happen to me.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 20:02

I should have said "if something isn't being reported by any mainstream source". That's what I meant. If one can't find it in a mainstream source, one can't be sure it's accurate.

Menopausalsourpuss · 08/08/2024 20:26

You are very naive @CassieMaddox. The whole mainstream media is told what to say by govt on certain issues and that is why people are going more into alternative news and sm to find other views/the truth. I first noticed it during Covid then BLM, Ukraine, gender ideology and on and on. Alot of people in this country trust the BBC etc. implicitly and don't even question the narratives (which I find very depressing). The latest one is to say the "far right" is the biggest threat to the country and anyone concerned about immigration and threat of unvetted men from dangerous countries is "far right."

aladderformoths · 08/08/2024 20:44

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 19:10

I thought a lot of the men were born in the UK.
If you are correct and it's that localised to a geographical area, then a conversation about Muslim practices or even Pakistani practices is largely irrelevant and potentially misleading.

Cultures aren’t destroyed in a generation! You are right that this is not a Muslim thing or a Pakistani thing but a complex interplay of a local, National and religious culture. It’s always like that. There is no one British universal culture, or one universal Christian culture, or one universal regional culture, but there will be distinctive individual cultures built up in different areas or communities around the interplay of these three.

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 21:04

MSM have a whole host of reasons not to report things. It might be ‘off message’, they might feel it is too niche, they might have other more important news. Hence the idea that a day dominated by eg a terrorist attack is a ‘good day to bury bad news’ - by the time the big news has died down it is old news and the world has moved on.

GailBlancheViola · 08/08/2024 21:12

Meanwhile Sunak is noticeable by his absence and various Conservative MPs and councillors appear sympathetic to the riots.

Put a sock in it Cassie Sunak HAS condemned the riots, what do you want him to do? Appear on TV? Book a slot for a Speech to the Nation? If he did you'd be furious and saying How dare the ex PM do this? He's not in power anymore. You'd be outraged on behalf of your heart throb Keir Starmer.

Swipe left for the next trending thread