Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

It was the commentary that did for me, I kind of feel violated by it, but that's not the right word. Gaslighted I suppose, but that's not strong enough. Made me feel ill anyway.

I might actually watch Crufts if this were likely to happen.

I'd like to see a face-off between The Kennel Club and Governing Council of the Cat Fancy (GCCF) and The International Cat Association (TICA) as to whose scoring system and handbook prevailed.

I’m certain they were repeating it deliberately to highlight the absurdity of the situation. Just as they kept emphasising ‘her’ long reach. I don’t know who the commentators were but pretty sure they are as outraged by the situation as everyone else is.

Also belying the idea that Khelif is going to be persecuted in Algeria or that Algerians would never support this.

Quite.

This is worse than with caster semanya. Back in those days I know I was certainly more “accepting” that I was probably missing something when I saw what to me was an obvious man running and beating women by miles.

now I know of course that CS was male I can’t believe that it’s happening all over again except it’s worse because this time we have the knowledge it’s happened before & the impact on women

absolute fucking bastards

I just went to check, when women boxing was first allowed in the Olympics. I knew it wasn't long ago.
It was 2012.
Didn't last long, did it.

JFC!!

Twitter thread from Tommy Lundberg

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1819653748840448310.html

I understand this and have empathy with it. None the less, Imani’s unusual condition as a teen would have seen them rapidly starting to thrash all the other girls, and a lot of boys, assuming at a high level men and women are allowed to train and spar together.

It must have been evident to Imani that their unusual condition made them effectively really dangerous to those around them unless she really held back?

And then two years ago that really unusual condition was clarified. So that should have been that.

That is very interesting and so worth reading to try to understand what it would be like for Imam Khelif in her society, not that this means she should be boxing against women.

Oh I'd LOVE to see cats dominate at Crufts!

I'm not sure if I have enough faith in the BBC anymore to believe that, but what you've said gives me a silver of hope

Why does the author of the post keep referring to the Middle East when the boxer is from Algeria isn't he?

I'd take a bet on a Bengal Cat intimidating every living creature within a reachable radius…

Having been attacked by a Bengal cat, I agree!

Arab culture.

I know it’s not a popular view but I do wonder if the only way out of this mess is for a third category where those males with dsds and those males with gender identities can compete. I imagine it would become mired with controversy as more and more male athletes would see it as a way to compete and win medals when they are not quite up to scratch in the male categories but at least it would free the female categories of all the drama.

American. Geography probably not a strong point. Or using ‘middle east’ as synonymous with ‘the Arabic world’.

Embarrassing.

I am against third cateories - Men's B categories - on principle, but it wouldn't help. In that post, the author explains that Khelif conceptualises himself as female - a woman with a condition. He would not join a third category because he is a woman in his own eyes and he wouldn't win.
Same as some of the MCWs. Being in the women's category is the only thing that will do.

Dr P on X has actually made eased my rage slightly. https://x.com/Psychgirl211/status/1819431448174272903

"My very good friend's husband who has until now been in complete thrall to gender ideology is horrified and says this is "not right".

He has been peaked.

Sadly, it was always going to take such a powerfully visual act of such untrammelled unfairness and dangerous, unthinking cruelty to make people realise what has been going on in the name of 'inclusivity' and 'fairness'.

And the @iocmedia filth have just compounded their error by making Angela 'apologise'.

This is what in psychology is called 'closed loop thinking', or 'cognitive entrenchment':

The reinforcing of a system by doing the same thing over and over again and not making adjustments, or responding to outside information or stimuli.

Closed loop thinking is not good. It's what's responsible for 'human error' when pilots crash planes, or when people make catastrophic fuck-ups that cost lives, or shedloads of money.

The IOC are so wedded to their ideological desire to achieve 'gender equality' that they don't realise they've lost the world.

This may seem like a victory for gender ideology and for trans activism.

But it is not.

It is in fact, an indication that the IOC know they have done the wrong thing, but are trying to mitigate it by forcing an 'apology' from Angela. They are caught in a classic closed loop.

And what they don't realise is that they have compounded and entrenched their original error. That every time one of these cheating men gets in the ring against a woman, global outrage grows.

The apotheosis of this debacle will be the 66kg 'Women's' boxing final with two men fighting each other.

The IOC will have seemingly got their way. They will have achieved their 'gender equality'.

But this will be a Pyhrric Victory.

Because my mate's friend has finally, finally, been peaked. He's had enough. And he is one of millions.

So, chin up Terven.

Yes, we are all gutted and disbelieving and the situation feels hopeless and too big to fight against. But, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "the 2024 Women's 66kg Olympic boxing event will go down in history as the beginning of the end of gender ideology"."

She’s Egyptian American. I imagine she has a reasonable grasp of the Geography and culture of North Africa.

In that post, the author explains that Khelif conceptualises himself as female - a woman with a condition. He would not join a third category because he is a woman in his own eye

This is just the author speculating though. I mean I do firmly believe that everyone should wear what they want, and clothes are just clothes, but looking at the images of Khelif there is nothing different to his dress and demeanor than any other young man. Factoring in that and his physique, it's hard to imagine that he views himself as a woman.

Read her post. She explains about the clothes.
Of course she is reading into it, but she is of the culture and makes a good argument.